Nathaniel Moses Moss - Saul Moss son of Nathaniel Moses Moss?

Started by Lynda Keen on Tuesday, August 1, 2017
Problem with this page?

Participants:

Profiles Mentioned:

Showing all 14 posts
8/1/2017 at 1:26 PM

I'm not sure this is accurate as Nathaniel Moses Moss born 1781 in London is my great great great great grandfather. He was a watchmaker and lived and died in East London. My research gives him two sons and a daughter: Coleman/Kalman, Michael and Sarah, all born in East London. He died in 1856 and is buried in Brady Street cemetery, Whitechapel, London. I doubt if he would have had a son born in Kent.

8/1/2017 at 4:16 PM

The manager is still active on Geni and is married to a descendant of Saul Moss. Perhaps there are two Nathaniel Moses Moss? It's not a rare name by any means.

8/1/2017 at 4:20 PM

Jeffrey Michael Maynard might be able to help. He's a co-manager of Saul Moss.

I see that the online trees for Saul Moss do not give the name of a father or mother, so perhaps this is speculation. You are correct that if your gggg grandfather is THIS Nathaniel Moses Moss born 1781, he's unlikely to have a child born in Kent.

8/1/2017 at 4:26 PM

It looks like there are two of them:

Nathaniel Moses Moss
an Ancestry Family Tree
Birth: Abt 1781 - Middlesex, England
Marriage: About 1804
Death: 24 Jan 1878 - London, England
Parents: Mordecai Moss

The above has a bunch of children, no Kalman/Coleman but there is a Sarah. And Saul.

and from Find A Grave (your entry)
NAME: Nathaniel Moses Moss
BIRTH: 1781 - Whitechapel, London Borough of Tower Hamlets, Greater London, England
DEATH: 11 Oct 1856 - Barking, London Borough of Barking and Dagenham, Greater London, England

8/1/2017 at 4:29 PM

I'll research it later - after the break fast.

8/2/2017 at 1:06 AM

Thanks, Hatte Blejer, the second one is my gggg grandfather. I don't know about the ancestry family tree one: they're often inaccurate. One on the Keen family has my father dead before 1971 and yet I saw him in 1971 and know he died in 1977. It seems to me that Nathaniel Moses Moss is quite an unusual name, which is why I didn't think there might be two people with that full name. The original surname was Moses and some of the family anglicised it to Moss and that was common. But Nathaniel is the only family member I've found who kept both surnames.

8/2/2017 at 7:09 PM

I have added in quite a bit of information on Saul Moss, with an obituary and some sources, and also his brother Richard Moss of Jamaica, who I have connected to this part of the tree. However, I have no source whatsoever for the name of their father.
Jeff

8/2/2017 at 11:19 PM

Jeffrey Michael Maynard - the other manager is still active so we should probably give her a chance to weigh in, but at a minimum we should create two distinct Nathaniel Moses Moss profiles and possibly make them Master Profiles so they don't get merged with notes on the father of Saul Moss that this needs sourcing, the only source being an unsourced Ancestry tree.

8/2/2017 at 11:22 PM

I assumed that Nathaniel Moses was two given names as was the custom among Ashkenazi Jews. For example my great grandfather was Hirsh Eliash, my ggg grandfather was Judah Leib.

The surname Moses would likely have been from a patronymic when surnames were imposed.

Lynda Keen - where was the family from originally?

8/3/2017 at 11:34 PM

My grandmother told my mother that her family was from Russia originally. My mother always thought my grandmother was born in Russia but in fact the family were here in the UK way back in the 18th century if not before.
Moses was their surname and they changed it to Moss though some of the family still used Moses as their surname while some used Moss and most of them used Moses for anything connected with the synagogue (marriage, burial).
You could be right that Moses is a patronymic, I hadn't thought of that. i'll investigate Moses Moses and Moses Moss to see if I can find one with a son Nathaniel at the righ time and in the right place. Thanks very much.

8/5/2017 at 9:04 AM

You're welcome. Have you done DNA testing? Some of the early Jews in England were from Amsterdam. Both Ashkenazi and Sephardic I believe.

8/7/2017 at 11:51 PM

No, I haven't done DNA testing. Could that tell me where my ancestors came from?

8/9/2017 at 10:05 PM

An autosomal test (such as Family Finder on Family Tree DNA) might indicate if they were Sephardic via Amsterdam versus Ashkenazi, although it sounds like you have family tradition that they are from Russia.

If there are Moss male line descendants, it would be worth getting one of them to take a Y-DNA test also. It's possible you could learn more that way.

The autosomal test may find some cousins and that could tell you more about the origin.

Private
12/17/2020 at 5:42 PM

Good Morning all,
I have only just seen this and I have a lot of information you are all looking at about Nathaniel Moses Moss. I hope you found the answers already you are looking for as this discussing was 2017.

Anyways Nathaniel Moses Moss was born 1781 in Whitechapel London and died 11 Oct 1856 in Barking London. He married Francis Moss.

He had 8 Children:

Coleman Moss
Michael Moss
Barnet Moss
Saul Moss
Sarah Moss
Phoebe Moss (Married Joesph Sewill, Famous Clock maker in Liverpool)
Richard, JP Moss
Moses Moss (Founder of Moss Bros)

I have their sons and daughters too on my ancestry family tree. I do have one on geni but it’s only half completed.

Saul Moss is my great great great great Grandfather
Nathaniel Moss is my great great great great great Grandfather

He’s a link about Saul Moss and Sons business (he owned a very successful business in Liverpool, London and had a warehouse in Manchester) but was bought by another family in 1913.

https://bifmo.history.ac.uk/entry/moss-saul-1810-1892

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Erected_by_Saul_Moss_Esq....

If you would like anymore information please do not hesitate to contact me on geni or ancestry

My name is Aaron Dias-Jayasinha

My Great Grandmother was a Moss called Doris Hilda Moss who married a Polish Guy

Thank you

Showing all 14 posts

Create a free account or login to participate in this discussion