Cause of Death Projects needed???

Started by Patricia Ann Scoggin on Sunday, October 8, 2017
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3/15/2018 at 4:00 PM

Erica Howton

I just found that Jimmy Steward died from a pulmonary embolism, so will start to work on a project for that... Or would it be better to have a more general one "Embolisms" and then list specific origins (pulmonary, cerebral) as sub projects underneath????

3/15/2018 at 5:53 PM

I think a general embolism category more useful.

3/15/2018 at 6:24 PM

Erica Howton
When completed, should I put it under the "Cardiac & Vascular Health Issues" heading as it is a vascular issue??? OR put it as a separate heading all it's own (after Dropsy)???

I will start working on it now...

3/15/2018 at 9:54 PM

OK folks, I have completed a project for the CoD portal for Embolisms @ https://www.geni.com/projects/Embolism/47556
It is for those who died of ANY type of embolism... Even though Pulmonary embolisms are most common, there are others.

3/16/2018 at 1:07 AM

I would think under Cardiac and Vascular health issues.

Quite a few famous people found already !

3/16/2018 at 1:35 AM

@Patricia, indeed, now I found it.

And there is a Wiki page, with much information, maybe even too much. But the Wiki page lists forms of dementia I referred to yesterday.

And - Alzheimer's disease is Alzheimer's, and not under neurological disorders or dementias.

Do you guys know why dementia, then Alzheimer's, should have their own classification?

Last year The British Medical Journal reported that, currently, Alzheimer's is the third leading cause of death. So it is fair to assume that the list in that category, and in the other dementias will raise rapidly.

3/16/2018 at 1:44 AM

About embolisms.

Typically death due to embolism is a pulmonary embolism.

Bood clotes in your veins, detaches, hits the lungs, you die.

In about 10% of the people there is an opening between different parts of the heart, and under this scenario, an embolism goes to your brain, and causes stroke.

So, among the profiles in the group, there probably are people i) who died of stroke, which was due to ii) embolism.

Other causes for embolia exists just as well.

3/16/2018 at 3:11 AM

In scenario ll, the embolism becomes a secondary / contributing cause of death by stroke and should be so noted on death certificates.

3/16/2018 at 10:05 AM

I know. I'm a doc. It was just that there was some discussion about embolisms above, so I just commented on it.

You guys haven't brought up ICD-10 yet. The WHO list of diagnoses.

http://apps.who.int/classifications/icd10/browse/2016/en

It's kinda comprehensive. For instance Exposure to animate mechanical forces
(W50-W64) is a good example.

http://apps.who.int/classifications/icd10/browse/2016/en#/W50-W64

I'm not all sure that this version of ICD-10 is all comprehensive. mean, unless I remember wrong, alligator bites were subclassified as a bite or bites, and according to whether or not those were work-related or happened outside of work.

How does ICD-10 strike to you? Or you guys?

3/16/2018 at 9:54 PM

Erica Howton,

Mikko has a point. I think the Senility - Dementia project maybe should be an individual project (like the Alzheimer's project) to make it easier to find rather than listing it under the Neurological heading. What do you think??? I think that Alzheimer's is better as it is. It is very well known & people may not know to look under the Neurological heading even though based on ICD coding it should be listed there.

I am also wondering if I should change the "Jump to" section so that it is "Jump to Cause of Death portal" only... but put a note about where to find it if the project is a sub project. What do you think???

I realized when I was working on another project where there are other projects listed to jump to, it takes you to those projects which wasn't my intent when I first started working on these projects... My intent was to direct where to find the project in the list; I could never decide which should come first. Does that make sense?
This is what I have for the Senility project AT PRESENT...
----
'''jump back to
* [http://www.geni.com/projects/Cause-of-death-portal/27730 Cause of death portal]
** [http://www.geni.com/projects/Neurological-Disorders-Diseases/31107 Neurological Disorders]'''
----
What I am proposing is to change it to:
(1)
'''Jump back to [http://www.geni.com/projects/Cause-of-death-portal/27730 Cause of death portal].'''
* This project is under the Neurological Disorders heading.

OR (depending on which looks better or is preferred...)
(2)
'''Jump back to [http://www.geni.com/projects/Cause-of-death-portal/27730 Cause of death portal].''' This project is under the Neurological Disorders heading.

It will be a big job, but I would be willing to make the changes... What do you think??? Which format option do you prefer, 1 or 2?

3/17/2018 at 7:30 PM

Senility is also a cause of death but does not mean you were demented prior to your death.

I don't think - and I have studied Alzheimer's for more than 20 years, did my PhD on Alzhimer's in 1996 - that Alzheimer's should be a stand-alone project. It's easy that way maybe, but that's all there is to it then.

With the aging population dementia, all forms of dementias, are an increasing problem with the increasing elderly population, so if the idea of the project is to increase information and awareness, be of educational value, then choosing "easy" strikes as lazy.

What about creating a heading a heading "Memory disorders" separate of Neurological disorders, place Alzheimer's and all the other forms of dementia under it?

3/17/2018 at 7:39 PM

Memory Disorders as a heading strikes me as very useful. I also agree that Alzheimer’s is probably best stand alone. There’s also no reason a project can’t be linked / related to many other projects and sub portals - we’re dimensional on Geni.

WHO classifications are better suited to an international audience.

Mikko, I thought you might be a physician, you talk like my brother (emergency medicine).

In my genealogy I struggle along with 19th century or before cause of death certificates. Some are quite quaint.

3/17/2018 at 8:54 PM

I'm sorry but I can't see Alzheimer's and other dementias as separate issues.

In USA classification often times goes according to DSM, latest version of which is DSM-5. I found a pdf version of it on-line at https://ia800805.us.archive.org/1/items/DSM-5/DSM-5.pdf

Starting from page 602, neurocognitive disorders are classified as follows (I'd know more conditions):

Specify whether due to:

Alzheimer’s disease (pp. 611-614)
Frontotemporal lobar degeneration (pp. 614-618)
Lewy body disease (pp. 618-621)
Vascular disease (pp. 621-624)
Traumatic brain injury (pp. 624-627)
Substance/medication use (pp. 627-632)
HIV infection (pp. 632-634)
Prion disease (pp. 634-636)
Parkinson’s disease (pp. 636-638)
Huntington’s disease (pp. 638-641)
Anotlier medical condition (pp. 641-642)
Multiple etiologies (pp. 642-643)
Unspecified (p. 643)

3/17/2018 at 10:16 PM

DSM being presenting symptoms, causes (as listed, plus more).

What we’re saying is that Alzheimer’s is a well known disease so it would fill a project easily.

Then you’d have a portal - an index page - no profiles - which lists the projects under that heading.

TBI is very different, an injury process, resulting in perhaps similar symptom presentation to Alzheimer’s, as example.

Neurocognitive disorders is probably a better heading although I really like memory issues.

3/17/2018 at 10:19 PM

I wasn’t being very clear about “stand-alone”, I’m sorry!

I think Pat was thinking alphabetically?

3/17/2018 at 11:42 PM

Erica Howton Mikko Laakso,
I have been reading your comments & have been working on an umbrella project for "Memory Disorders". We could put Alzheimers & Senility / Dementia projects under that heading. However, there are many conditions that have memory issues, but are not the primary cause of death and other conditions that include memory issues but would fit better under Cardiac or Neurological umbrellas (& other conditions that might be better as stand alone project, such as drug related). I will put links to the Alzheimer's disease & Senility / Dementia projects in this project. I will also include a link to this discussion if there is a need for projects for any other diseases/conditions that might fit here. Will this work???

I would put the "Memory Disorders" in the CoD portal after Maternal death in the listing...

3/18/2018 at 12:49 AM

OK, here is the Memory Disorders project @ https://www.geni.com/projects/Memory-Disorders/47574

I am still working on it. I have put links to Alzheimer, Senility/Dementia & Parkinson's. Should we change the name of the Senility/Dementia to Dementia/Senility??? or leave it as it is??? I will move the 3 projects so they are sub project under this one in the CoD portal as soon as I add this project there.

Mikko, if you want to add more project tags I would appreciate any help. I don't know how detailed the listing of diseases & conditions needs to be as some have not been identified until the 20th & 21st century & the causes of death reflect medical knowledge in past centuries also. Feel free to add to the listing of Conditions if you feel there is a need to include more.

Erica, how exacting do you want the list in this project??? Is more info, conditions needed???

3/18/2018 at 1:05 AM

Erica Howton
I don't see that Parkinson's disease ([https://www.geni.com/projects/Parkinson-s-Disease/32939) is in the CoD portal... although there is a project for it. It looks like it is for both those who have/had it as well as those who died from it. Would it really be better to put it under the Neurological umbrella? I think of it as more of a neurological condition than a memory problem. What do you think???

3/18/2018 at 1:31 AM

I found 3 pix that would work for the Memory Disorder project. I picked one, but would like some input... Would one of the other options be better??? I liked all three. Decisions, decisions!!!!

3/18/2018 at 2:45 AM

Erica Howton
I added the Parkinson's Disease project to the CoD portal under Neurological Diseases... & modified the project some. Now I wonder if it needs more modifications to reflect those who died from the disease... maybe have a comment "be sure to add Parkinson's disease" to the Cause of death line in the person's profile"??? Are there any other modifications it may need??? It isn't a curable disease, so even if they have it & are currently alive (Michael J Fox, for example) they will eventually die from the disease is my thinking... Although they could die from some other cause with this as a secondary or contributing cause...

3/18/2018 at 3:23 PM

Patricia Ann Scoggin

The structure looks better now, although there are still bugs in it. And please do not take it personally if I say that. It's just that this (classification) is much easier for me to handle, if it has been my bread and butter.

As far as Parkinson's is concerned, it also causes dementia in the late stage of the disease. And there are a group of Parkinsonian dementias, such as Lewy Body disease.

Also, there are more frontotemporal dementias than Pick's disease. I can fix all that.

As far as vascular dementias are concerned, some epidemiological studies conducted in Asian populations have suggested that in far east, China, Japan etc., there vascular dementia has been proposed to be more common than Alzheimer's.

Given that a whopper of worlds population lives there, there may be a seed of truth to it.

I have had my own theory as to why Alzheimer may be less frequent than, say, in China, than in Europe or USA.

The brain is basically not different from a muscle. It's been said "Use it or lose it." You can train your brain with stuff which challenges your brain, keeps it in shape. So my train of thought goes like this. For a regular Chinese, the ability to read just a newspaper may require recollection of 4000-5000 symbols. That is quite a work-out every day. And it is easy to understand my hypothesis may just as well be true.

On the other hand, mirroring what I said above, I have proposed the internet and googling might be risk factors for dementia. It's simple. As long as you are good in doing searches, you no longer need to remember anything. I detested getting a cellular phone as long as I could, but prior to the old Nokia model, I know I could memorize some 50 phone numbers easily, now I barely remember my own.

One final point I have to make is that "senilitas" is a valid cause of death. and if you die due to old age, your cause of death is Senilitas, that does not imply you were demented, just old. So senilitas and dementia are no synonymous. And, as in dementia, with the population of the world aging, both senilitas and dementia will be much more common causes of death, if no cure for Alzheimer's and other dementias is found.

I am pretty sure I wrote in somebody's profile a CoD to be senilitas.

My cousin again, Mikko Rafael, he died of "prematuritas." Is there a project for that?

3/18/2018 at 3:29 PM

I'm getting good lessons, thank you. Pat, you have a classification expert to work with, I'd follow Mikko's suggestions. I'm happy if I can decipher "heart failure" on an early 20th century death certificate.

3/18/2018 at 3:35 PM

Erica Howton, I guess in English (stroke) and Swedish (slag) can mean cardiac stroke or cerebral stroke. Then the key thing in deciding which one is the right diagnosis, is the symptoms prior to the death. Should they be available. In Swedish, "i slaget" also means you died in a combat.

3/18/2018 at 4:48 PM

Mikko Laakso,
Thanks for the input. No I am not offended with your comments. Feel free to make modifications to the info that is provided for any of the projects that need it. I am a retired RN and will appreciate your input on content for projects. I have created many of the projects in the CoD portal as I have a lot of free time, but appreciate help. I started with working on medically related projects but eventually expanded to other projects that have been needed. I have learned that sometimes, less is enough & have had to cut down on the info I have put in the projects, which has been a challenge as I like to share knowledge!!!! Erica has been a big help in determining if I have tooooooo much or other modifications are needed.

We have attempted to make the Cause of Death portal projects kind of general, rather than getting tooooo specific or technical with projects & sub projects, so they will cover many similar conditions. Otherwise the listing will become overwhelming and some will have only a couple profiles. If there is a need with the potential for many profiles then it deserves it's own project or will be a sub-project... such as "the Cancers" or "Infections"... "Bubonic Plague" is a sub project under Infections, but it would become overwhelming if ALL were listed (see Related projects), hence it is a major project that covers all plagues since it was a world wide issue, but has a sub project for "The Black Death" as sooooo many died in that plague & is well known. More specific plagues (by date or place) are listed in the Related Projects sections. Sometimes when there are numerous possible sub projects, they will be listed in a primary or an umbrella project, with links to any that already have a project, but no project will be made for others until a need has been expressed. (Hope that makes sense...)

If someone has a need for a project for a condition in a list that doesn't have a project yet or they can't find it in the CoD in the portal, the person can put the need in this discussion & we go from there as you did with your question about "Dementia"

Please keep in mind that the Cause of Death portal covers medical conditions that may be centuries old & were known by other names in the past and have changed & become more specific as our medical knowledge has grown.

As far as I know there isn't a project for "Prematuritas". How prevalent is it??? What category would it fit in???

3/18/2018 at 5:43 PM

I like what Antoine de Saint-Exupery said about text. "It's not perfect when there's nothing more to add, but omit." And I truncated his wording.

Prematuritas is very common. It refers to preterm babies. Such as my cousin Mikko Rafael, who weighed about 500 g when he was born. He could basically have survived, but he didn't make it. He probably would have been challenged in many ways. He died at four months old, because he was not mature enough. "Prematuritas."

3/18/2018 at 6:29 PM

Patricia Ann Scoggin and Erica Howton

Could the project be streamlined? I mean, I encounter several profiles from day to day, and I know what they died of. But to enter them to the project, I would have to be part of every subproject. I already am part in 150 projects or so, and I try to be conservative. I'd rather not have 150 more more.

What about malpractice? It has been proposed to be the fourth leading cause of the death.

Also, regular painkillers - NSAIDs such as aspirin, or paracetamol - kill a huge number of people every year.

My grandmother died of decubitus. Where is it categorized? It is a form of wound. A pressure wound. A wound which then goes gangrenous, and kills the victim (such as my grandmother).

I am still not comfortable with Senilitas being associated with dementia because it is not. Seniltas is to die of natural cause. You die because you're old. Your CoD is "senilitas." Your mind can be as sharp as a razor blade.

Dying of old age, senilitas, is a natural cause of death.

3/18/2018 at 8:09 PM

Erica Howton,
A project for Premature Births is done, but it could be for both those who survive & those who die. Is it toooo long? Do we need to separate the survivors from the fatalities? I still need to do some more to the project... pix, related projects & tags, but thought I would get this question to you first.
See: https://www.geni.com/projects/Premature-Birth-Prematuritas/47584

Mikko Laakso, unfortunately you need to join the projects before you can add a person to a project. Think about the Curators who belong to sooooooooooo many projects.

As for the potential projects you mention above, there is one for malpractice--see Medical Error under Non Natural & Accidental... & there is one for Combined drug intoxication (in same area), but not one from NSAIDs. So far, I haven't been creating projects for conditions until someone expresses a need, even though the cause may be prevelant. Finding people online who died from some conditions is a challenge, let alone those who are also in Geni.

3/18/2018 at 8:26 PM

Erica Howton,
I just realized that my list of CoD portal projects was incomplete & there is already a project for "Infant Deaths". Should the "Premature Birth project be deleted or do we convert it & modify it to reflect "Survivors of Premature Birth"?????? We could provide a link for those who would qualify for Premature birth but died, to the "Infant Deaths" project.

What do you think???

3/18/2018 at 11:28 PM

You’re best off polling those who use infant deaths but they seem very different to me from deaths due to premature birth. Surviving a premature birth does not seem relevant to me; it wouldn’t be a cause of death. If it has led to medical challenges to be faced, it’s a whole different set of conditions & seems out of scope at the moment.

3/18/2018 at 11:44 PM

Erica Howton,
I went ahead & modified what I had to make it for survivors... please take a look at it. You may be surprised who survived a premature birth. (https://www.geni.com/projects/Premature-Birth-Prematuritas-Survivor...)

I realize it isn't relevant to you with the CoD portal, but I would appreciate your input.

I looked at the "Infant Death" project & it seems to include many of the things that also apply to preemies. Maybe the title could be modified so it read: "Infant Death including Premature Births"????? The project is for birth - 5 yrs so it would include premature births also... I will look at it closer & ck with the person who created it to see what she thinks...

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