Cause of Death Projects needed???

Started by Patricia Ann Scoggin on Sunday, October 8, 2017
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3/19/2018 at 12:35 AM

Help!!!! I have a conundrum & need some input from those of you who follow this discussion.

I started a project for the CoD portal for Premature Births, then found there was a project for "Infant Deaths" ([https://www.geni.com/projects/Infant-Deaths/30985 Infant Deaths]) that includes some info about premature births. This project covers infants from birth to 5 y/o & has a little info about premature births. Sooooo, I converted what I had & modified it so it reflected the survivors (https://www.geni.com/projects/Premature-Birth-Prematuritas-Survivor...). I was surprise at some of the notable people who survived premature births.

My questions are:
* Do we need a sub-project under Infant Deaths for "premature births" that focuses on the challenges these individuals face but don't survive?
* Is there enough info in the Infant Death project about preemies or does there need to be more info there?
* Is there a better name for the project other than "Premature Births" ? What about: "Death from Premature Birth complications"? (or would this be better to put in the intro to the project, so people will know who to add.)

3/19/2018 at 12:37 AM

I would be uncomfortable with the title change. Infant death includes premature birth as a cause; if there enough premature births as cause of death (and there are), it should be its own subproject.

Let's put it like this. Most of the many infant (age 0 - 5) deaths I know of, I do not know the cause of death. If the project title is Infant and premature birth death, I would never think to use it.

But that's me! (You also know i like short project titles). As I said, poll the members who use it most.

The survived premature birth project is lovely, of course.

3/19/2018 at 1:56 PM

For what t's worth, the terminology...

i) Prematuritas refers to deaths which are due to too early labor.

ii) Infant deaths does not. And I think time frame is too vast. And that category probably involves children with a specific cause of death.

iii) From a medical standpoint, infant refers to a child who died one month old or less. From a legal point, the term infancy goes all the way to age of 18.

iv) Survivors of prematuritas as a CoD is not likely to attract people, plus it's on a CoD. And those individuals did survive, not die.

v) Is there a CoD project for SIDS?

vi) I still am not comfortable with the use of the term senility. From a dementia perspective, presenile dementias have onset before the age of 65, senile dementias after that. Definition of senescence below.

vii) I'll put it this way. Senescence / senility / senilitas is no more illness than, say, puberty.

Link 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant#Mortality

Link 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_infant_death_syndrome

Link 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senescence

3/19/2018 at 1:58 PM

One more: I can't picture a four-year old to be an infant. The origin of the word come from Latin word "infans" which means speechless. And if kids start to talk at about one year old, that marks the end of infancy.

3/20/2018 at 6:54 PM

For those of you who follow this discussion, there are a couple of new projects for children. I hope you will take a look at them & add to them as you come across appropriate profiles. If you have any comments about content or concerns, please feel free to let me know.

* 1) https://www.geni.com/projects/Pediatric-Deaths/47613 Pediatric Deaths (2-21 y/o's)
* 2) [https://www.geni.com/projects/Premature-Baby-Deaths/47612 Premature Baby Deaths
* 3) https://www.geni.com/projects/Infant-Deaths/30985 Infant Deaths (this one has been modified from birth - 5yrs, to cover Birth to 2 yrs based on info from the American Academy of Pediatrics.)
*** Many in this project (those 2-5 y/o) might fit better in the "Pediatric Deaths" project & want to "move them to it... Sorry for the inconvenience this may create :-(

If you look for them in the CoD portal, they are after the Organ Failure section in the list.

3/25/2018 at 8:06 PM

Just created a project: https://www.geni.com/projects/Died-from-War-Wounds/47668

Does the name need to be modified??? It is for those War Fatalities who, after getting medical care, died from their wounds...

Erica Howton,
Would you please review the pix options? I really like the "He Died of His Wounds", but don't know if it is copyrighted or not... I found it connected to a 35 sec YouTube video, but didn't see it anywhere at the site... I didn't want to focus on any one war, country or person for the pix, although I did find two that are for people that mention they died of wounds received in action / Civil War that I wasn't sure about. Please eliminate any you think should be.

Are Sergeant R Howe (Canadian) & Joshua L Chamberlain in Geni???

3/25/2018 at 9:38 PM

I found Joshua Chamberlain is in Geni & have added him to the project. I was unable to find Sgt R (Robert) Howe 1889-1916 in Geni. Did find some info on him @ [http://ardboeheritage.com/articles/howe-sergeant-robert-1889-1916/ Mid-Ulster Mail - Howe, Sergeant Robert 1889-1916]

My computer needs additional RAM & will be sending it to a shop for this Mon. @ noon. I will be online until then. Hopefully I will have it back online on Tuesday. :-(

3/25/2018 at 10:35 PM

I like the one showing currently best. The YouTube grab is a little too in your face for me, although that might be good, too.

I added a recent profile I worked on (Civil War casualty).

Good job.

3/26/2018 at 9:10 AM

Erica Howton
I noticed the question from Mikko about the massacre (Mass Murder by a state) project in another discussion. So I checked the project list & found QUITE A FEW (at least 25 +) projects that have massacre in their title.

How do you want to "attach" them to the CoD portal??? The options seem to be: 1) put them in the CoD portal listing under the "Mass murder by a state" project, OR 2) add to the Related projects, OR 3) listing them in the umbrella project with links, OR 4) a combination of any of these??? Also each of these projects would then need a link to the CoD portal.

Is there anyone who would be interested in taking on this challenge once Erica decides how to deal with this issue?????

3/26/2018 at 4:41 PM

@Patricia @Erica

I find massacres very noteworthy projects. And one way Wiki in my link dealt with them, was "by country."

So, to get an even half-way decent project about those, I thing we would need curator help from most of the countries.

I mean, just as far as Ukraine is considered, the Wiki page lists the following massacres: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Ukraine

And while Holodomor sounds like something from Harry Potter books, de facto, Stalin had estimated seven to ten million people die. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

So, just by the token of those two, we would need curators / collaborators by most any given country. I mean, if I wanted to start a Holodomor project, what would I know?

3/26/2018 at 7:34 PM

Patricia and Erica;

I still maintain my view. An a medical professional, as a doc, I have to detest linking "senility" and "dementia" as an umbrella project.

Here is an example of my family trees. A lady who died of "old age." A lady, who died of "Senilitas."

Ulrika Kyander

Senility refers to an old age, and not dementia, or any forrm of memory impairment. It's a natural cause of death.

To further illustrate this, to couple "adolescence" as a cause of "moped accidents" is just as justified.

Or "Deatch caused by a Porsche accident" as a being equal with "mid-life crisis."

I do hope you reconsider your position on this one.

3/27/2018 at 5:12 PM

Mikko Laakso,
Is Senility ("Senilitas") found on death certificates today or in the past??? Was it used interchangeably in the past with dementia? Would the majority of laymen (past or present) think that the two conditions were similar or the same??? If the answer is yes to any of these questions, then maybe the two conditions should be left together...

This is in the "Senility - Dementia" ([http://www.geni.com/projects/Senility-Dementia/31510 Senility / Dementia]) project as part of the intro:
Senility is an obsolete and imprecise term used to denote a pronounced loss of mental or physical control in the aged caused by physical or mental deterioration or a combination of the two. In senility, these changes are often extreme in nature. Certain types of psychosis are associated with aging, such as senile dementia and dementia of the alzheimer type.

Please also look at the "History" section... It explains why these 2 conditions could be linked.

I will see what I can find about "Senilitas" & if there are any notables who died with this diagnosis...

3/27/2018 at 7:00 PM

@Patricia, in Finland, there has been a long tradition of having used Latin in medicine. Starting from anatomy to the diagnoses as well as in other related iisues, such as old age.

For me, the med school ended in 1995, the class of 1989-1995, and back then there were some text books in Finnish, but not too many. It was ok.

And now, there are textbooks for most anything, mostly published by [https://www.duodecim.fi/english Duodecim] (meaning Twelve.) And this is something I do not like.

It's ok to have textbooks in Finnish, but in the process, Duodecim has promoted Finnish language, coined Finnish words for things... And there are times I no longer understand what is written in journal, such as [https://www.duodecim.fi/english/products/for-members/Duodecim] or [https://www.laakarilehti.fi/english Finnish Medical Journal] because Latin terms have been replaced by Finnish terms, and I am not familiar with those, and I won't submit to use them.

Nothing wrong with Finnish language, but medicine is universal and Fnnish is spokeb by only about 5,5 M people, and some 26,000 doctors, the likes of me who studied in English, used Latin, and those who did not. Meaning there may be a gap in skills and communication just among doctors.

So in your text, it says "Senility is (an obsolete and) imprecise term." And that is my argument. Imprecise. I consulted Finnish vocabulary for "seniili". The Finnish tem "seniili" may mean "old", "weakness due to old age", and - a verbatim translation - "Being silly due to old age."

So, not long ago, 15 years or so, when you died due to old age, a natural cause of death, the diagnosis was "senilitas." Now it is "vanhuus" meaning the same, old age.

I don't know whether or not laymen would find senility and dementia interchangeably, and I don't even care. Simply because it's wrong. If I layman should think senility means demented, then proper use of the term would correct the layman.

See a related term, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senescence senescence]. It's about aging. Aging is inevitable, dementia is not.

Death due to senility is equal to death due to old age, not due to dementia. And that is my point in a nutshell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senescence

3/27/2018 at 7:50 PM

Mikko Laakso,

I have updated the Senility-Dementia project to include more info about Senility. Please ck it out.

I did find one person with a source that said she died of "Pneumonia & Senility". Have added her to the project... I am sure that the senility is a secondary cause of death. ([Mary Ann Denison Mary Ann Andrews Denison ( 1826-1911)]: Novelist born in Cambridge, Mass., died of pneumonia & senility. [https://books.google.com/books?id=rVLOhGt1BX0C&pg=PA463&lpg... Notable American Women, 1607-1950: A Biographical Dictionary, Volume 2. By Radcliffe College. page 462-3])

Yes, senility is technically not currently a diagnosis in use for dementia conditions, but I believe it may have been in use before the 1900's based on what I found online. It does refer to "old age" but it also can involve memory issues which can contribute to a cause of death...

I will add your wikipedia site about senescence to the "Additional reading" section in the project. I did add some additional sites that discuss the difference between senility & dementia. If people are interested, they can ck out the sites.

I think we should agree to disagree on the terminology. Senility does sometimes include memory issues, so it does fit under the current heading of "Mental Disorders". Maybe I should change the title to "Dementia - Senility"?

It is amazing what some of the medical conditions are commonly called today compared to "back in the day " before all of the medical advances & discoveries that have been made!!!

3/27/2018 at 10:20 PM

When I can I will look up how the American Colonial physicians described their patients, especially the Scots trained, who definitely used Latin, and professionalized American medicine. (see Benjamin Rush).

So far my inclination is to use modern terms and categories but in a colloquial language. For the historic, we’ll ask.

So senilitas is “old age / natural causes.”

Dementia is the varying diseases. I would take “senility” out of the title as being obsolete.

3/27/2018 at 10:58 PM

Erica Howtonm
Do you want me to remove all references to senility in the Dementia project? I have removed Senility from the title & the first section of the project. Will work on modifying it more tomorrow... Or would you like me to leave a very brief comment about senility in the Dementia project??? Have I removed enough or do I need to remove more comments about senility?

I will work on one for "Senility - Old Age", OR do you want the wording to be reversed? What sort of an "intro" for the Senility project as to who should be added?

[Mary Ann Denison Mary Ann Andrews Denison ( 1826-1911)] will need to be moved to the new project (Senility) when it is done.

3/28/2018 at 12:41 AM

Do not use Senility in a project title is my opinion. The proper Latin term for "died of old age" is Senilitas, which "sounds like" the outdated term "senility.". So avoid it altogether, at least in a title. A simple Died of Old Age (Natural Causes) or like that will convey to everyone what is meant, without need to crack the Latin / medical dictionaries.

3/28/2018 at 12:52 AM

Mikko Laakso

What do you think of this ICD 10 coding ?

http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/R00-R99/R50-R69/R54-/R54

Patricia Ann Scoggin I think some light editing at the top on the senility term might be in order. More emphasis that the term is outmoded as we better understand the disease processes, and that it's descriptive, not diagnostic. "Being silly due to old age."

3/28/2018 at 12:55 AM

By the way, the way I interpreted Mary Ann Denison was that she was frail and elderly, and pneumonia "carried her off.". It might be possible to find her actual death certificate, and that would be an interesting exercise.

3/28/2018 at 1:46 AM

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000077266662860&

In 1911, Cambridge, MA (good medical care) her cause of death is listed as senility, of several years duration, hypostatic pneumonia secondary.

So: how did the good doctors of the Harvard Medical School area define “senility” in 1911?

3/28/2018 at 3:22 AM

I've forgotten to mention something very important and useful, particularly with this very good point about the international medical language of Latin.

We can name projects in as many languages as we like, just as we can profile names.

Project > Edit > Add Language > (scroll down to Latinas)

I thought we already had a project for old age / natural causes ?

3/28/2018 at 11:10 AM

Erica Howton, I didn't see one when I ok'd the project list & entered "old age".
I will start working on one for "Old Age" after I make the modifications in the Dementia project.

What title & intro for who to add to the project would be appropriate? I have a tentative title of "Died from Old Age". Do you want it as a stand alone project? (It would go just above "Organ Failure" in the alphabetical listing...)

In the intro, a comment could be made to the effect that the person might go in another project also... as there may be other contributing causes (???)

3/28/2018 at 11:19 AM

Please double check that there isnt a project already. It's such a broad category I can't really answer you right away. More input needed from more people. Died "of" Old Age seems better grammar.

3/28/2018 at 5:17 PM

I have modified the Dementia project. See: [https://www.geni.com/projects/Dementia/31510 Dementia]
I wonder if the section on "Senility" should maybe go in the history section -- maybe at the beginning???

I am working on one for: "Died of Old Age". Erica, I looked again & didn't see a project for this topic when I checked.

Private User
3/28/2018 at 5:35 PM

Hi Erica and Patricia:
I wanted to make a comment about this. If this is going to be public information, and Alzheimer's, etc. are genetically driven diseases, is it ethically appropriate to have this publicized?

3/28/2018 at 6:02 PM

Managers approve adds to project (curators can add anyone). I generally am not working, aside from my own family or celebrities, after 1900. So for instance, Robin Williams family has publicized his underlying cause of death (indeed for advocacy purposes). I would add him. Otherwise not.

I think the concern is privacy more then ethics, and applies to more then COD projects. So the project approval process should take care of that.

It’s a good reminder for all members.

3/28/2018 at 6:07 PM

Patricia Ann Scoggin Where the senility section lays out looks OK to me. Up top would give the term more prominence. Possibly a sub section on clarifying it as a cause of death in order records.

3/28/2018 at 6:10 PM

This is the project I was thinking of

https://www.geni.com/projects/Death-by-natural-causes/27989

3/28/2018 at 8:45 PM

Private User As I work on many of these projects, when I add a name to the list of those with disease or condition or other CoD, I do so only if I find the info online. I am assuming (right or wrong) that if it is there it is public knowledge. If anyone prefers that a name be deleted, I believe they can do so or they can let me or a curator know so we can remove the name. I attempt to be sensitive to the preferences of Geni members. Erica, if a person is a collaborator on a project do they have the option of deleting a person from a project when they "view those added" to a project?

[363677820350011581]]
Yes, I saw that one, but it is listed as an umbrella project & no where does it say anything about "dying of old age".

I think we may need one that is available for those aged people who went to sleep & didn't wake up. I realize that dying of old age is not truly a cause of death in and of itself. But I think there could be a need for a project for those who "Died of Old Age", esp. when I looked at the reference you listed in this discussion: [http://www.antiquusmorbus.com/English/Senility.htm List of Old Age Related Causes of Death]. Even senility was listed there...

In my rough draft for the proposed project I have under that site: "From the above site the following are some of the terms used, (explanations; definitions), & examples found on Death certificates:"

I have included a very short bit about senility in it also, since some of the examples listed in this site do include senility or various related causes.

We could add it to the "Death by Natural Causes" & limit it to those with no other cause but old age or senility or similar... Maybe with the intro such as: "Please add only those who Died of Old Age (or similar) with NO other specific cause of death."

I have included a lot of the info from this site: [https://www.aplaceformom.com/blog/2-6-2014-what-does-it-mean-to-die... A Place for Mom - Natural Causes: What does it Meant to “Die of Old Age”]

Should I go ahead & create the project? Once you look at it it could be eliminated if you feel it isn't needed, couldn't it??? Or would you rather get more input here first???

I'm not sure what you want in regards to senility in the Dementia project. Please feel free to modify it.

3/28/2018 at 8:56 PM

Folks, is there a need for a "Died of Old Age" project?????? Please provide some input - pro or con.

At this time it would probably be a stand alone project under & linked to the "Died by Natural Causes" project.

I found 9 or 10 people from this site: [https://www.ranker.com/list/famous-people-who-died-of-old-age/refer... Ranker - Famous People Who Died of Old Age]

Thanks for your input in advance.

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