unknown Harris - Thomas Harris of Isle Wright 1636-1733 Wife Ann Martin Harris (Tomlin) 1644-1687

Oh here we go again.

It was proved to the satisfaction of most people here that Thomas Harris 1614-1677 was NOT the son of Sgt. John Harris.

There is A LOT of bad information floating around the Web, and some of it looks "good" at first glance until you really dig into primary documentation.

Thomas Peralta

There's an article you should look at

"The five Thomas Harrises of Isle of Wight County, Virginia" by J.A. Brayton, 1995 - Isle of Wight County (Va.)

https://books.google.com/books?id=nppRAAAAMAAJ&focus=searchwith...

In addition there has been an extensive and active Harris DNA project. We've spent some months conforming the Geni tree to those project results (which are of course ongoing).

I can't promise the Geni tree for the Harris surname is completely accurate -- there are a lot of Harris families -- but I can assert it's a whole better and more up to date than trees on ancestry.

Which Harris are you tracking?

More references in the profile overview for Sgt. John Harris

There is absolutely no evidence to support the Ancestrry claim that Thomas Harris d1677 was the son of Sgt John Harris, In fact the known facts of the peerage of Sir William Harris d1616 ended when his only documented male Harris heir, Sir Cranmer Harris, died in 1674 leaving only daughters. Had this Thomas Harris d1677 been a son of Sgt John Harris, then he would have inherited the title, coat of arms and estate and he could not have been hung by Governor Berkeley without a crown warrant from the King. Sgt John Harris had documented his children to the Heralds at the College of Arms in London who bestow these titles and coats of arms and he did not name a son Thomas Harris, only one son John Harris.

As of 5/27/2020, I went to Harris DNA-Group 4, Lineage #5.-DNA Kit #39214 for Edward Harris 1663-1734. It shows the following:

Thomas Harris 1614-1672, and unkn 1st wife Isle of Wight Co, VA
Thomas Harris 1636-1688, and Alice West Isle of Wight Co, VA
Edward Harris 1663-1734,and Mary Turner IOW Co, VA to Brunswick Co, VA
Nathan Harris 1712-1793, and Catherine Walton, Brunswick Co. to Southhampton Co. VA and NC

Their are more names after Nathan Harris and I connect DNA from myself to Thomas Harris 1614-1672

Does anyone need more proof????????
Go to DNA site

Tom King, the only problem when people say "this or that could NOT have happened" is that in history, almost anything can and does happen. "Most likely" is usually used to cover this. There absolutely have been times when a lord disinherited his first born son. In a pinch, the illegitimates could, and have been, made legitimate as well all you needed was the pope or king as your buddy. However matching DNA only proves that so much on the other side of this question unfortunately. A very American problem.

There were “ 5 Thomas Harrises of Isle of Wight County, Virginia"

What we know from Y DNA studies is the next generation of probable brothers - not this “unknown” one.

I would need to see “paper” for Thomas Harris 1614-1672, and ukn 1st wife Isle of Wight Co. , VA uploaded to profile.

It’s taken us years to get this Harris line somewhat right. Let’s get the citations in order before giving the fellow a name.

Geni has this a little differently.

Thomas Harris, of Charles City Married Alice Harris

There are no proven children of this Thomas Harris, but Edward Harris, of Isle of Wight ( - d 1677) married Martha Hardy is considered possible.

In your search browser type ; freepages.rootweb.com/-gohrpage/genealogy/harrisdna/group4.html before you get through typing freepages you should see the place you need. My DNA goes from myself to Thomas Harris 1614, I did have 1616 in my tree.
Hope this helps all
Eddie Harris

This is old..
https://lists.rootsweb.com/hyperkitty/list/harris-dna@rootsweb.com/...

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gohrpage/harrisdna.html HARRIS DNA GROUP 4 LINEAGE CHARTS The lineage numbers supplied tie the line in with DNA Group 4. Then a letter of the alphabet is assigned for each successive lineage.

Lineage #4A.—DNA Kit #26363—ID #QKGNA. This is for the line of West Harris, Sr. (1715-1795) (Generation #3). He has a *proven DNA link* back to Thomas Harris (ca. 1636-ca. 1688) of Isle of Wight Co., VA (Generation #1) shown here. Earlier lineages have said that Thomas Harris of Isle of Wight was a grandson of Sergeant John Harris (ca. 1588-ca. 1638) of Charles City Co., VA and great-grandson of Sir William Harris (ca. 1556-1616) of Creeksea, County Essex, England.

**But this earlier link is now questionable.**

This DNA kit matches the 37-marker modal in all results, except markers 34 & 35 show variances of one number difference. [doesnt this mean its a two step mis match then?]

Link 404'd. You may have to try Familytreedna.com directly: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/harris-ydna?iframe=ycolorized

Group 04 (I-M253, etc.) - John Harris (c1588-Bef. August 1637) of Charles City Co., VA & Thomas Harris (c1636-1688) of Isle of Wight Co., VA & other lineages

I don’t read this a firm pedigree ??

Familytreedna.com depends on self-reporting of "earliest known ancestor", which may not be correct (accounting for why the same person sometimes shows up in two or three different groupings).

Whoever claims "Londric de Beaugency" for an ancestor is really drawing the longbow. It's very unlikely they have a valid paper trail going back *that* far.

As there are no proven parents for either Thomas Harris d1666 or Edward Harris d1677, any Family Tree DNA Harris Ydna submitter is only claiming parents For them for which there has never been found any documentation.

Thomas Harris 1634-1672, son of Edward & Frances Harris who emigrated with their family to Lancaster Co VA c1650, married 1st in Lancaster to Eleanor George and had one son John Harris 1655-1713. After Elealnr diedc1660 he married 2nd to Alice Newman and several daughters and one son Thomas Harris 1667-1712 who married Judith Edwards. This line is documented as Harris DNA Group 30 and not related to the Crixie England or Charles City Harris line nor any other Isle of Wight Haris line..

Pamela, I sadi that Thomas Harris d1677 was not tthe son of John Harris and Dorothy Colcott.for good reasons, First, I had examined in person the Letter written by John Harris in the College of Arms in London, the I had reviewed the actual christening records of the four children WIlliam, John, Dorothy and John in the churches where they were christened. On top of that, I have the christening record of
this Thomas Harris d1677 that matches that of his marriage record to Alice West..

,m

I would also add, as the Lead Researcher for this FTNA Harris Surname Project, that the Group 4 and all but one group known only to me,has NOy connection to Sir William Harris d1616 of Criixie England or John Harris d1638 of Charles City., Living descendants of male Harris cousins of Sir William Harris living in Australia were located my myself and took anonimous Family Tree DNA 111 marker tests that place them in a far different Harris DNA Goup and Halplo groupr known only to me.

I would also add, as the Lead Researcher for this FTNA Harris Surname Project, that the Group 4 and all but one group known only to me,has NOy connection to Sir William Harris d1616 of Criixie England or John Harris d1638 of Charles City., Living descendants of male Harris cousins of Sir William Harris living in Australia were located my myself and took anonimous Family Tree DNA 111 marker tests that place them in a far different Harris DNA Goup and Halplo groupr known only to me.

Pamela Johnson and Eddie Harris, as I said many times before, there are no documented Harris DNA Group 4 lines beyond Thomas Harris d1688 or Edward Harris d1677, from whom I descend from both, from a gr granddaughter of Thomas married to a grandson of Edward. This has been documented for over 25 years. As the FTDNA Lead Researcher for the Harris DNA Surname project, it is my task to review all of the gedcoms submittted by DNA kit submitters for accuracy. Many of these gedcoms are.only accurate for a few generations and most are not completely accurate, especially any that claim ancestry beyond what is proven and documented or claim Thomas d1688 as direct ancestor when the are actually descended from Edward d1677 or vice verse. Thomas Harris d1672 has long ago been proven as Group 30 and there are no extant Isle of Wight records that name any parents for Thomas d1688 or Edward d1677 or relationship between then, Neither are there any Charles City records that name any children of Thomas Harris d1677 or his parents.
Geni is suooosed to be strictly for documented lineages, so why is everyone trying to add undocumented, unproven and here say laneage for this Thomas Harris d1688 and Edward Harris d1677?

The lines of descent from Thomas Harris d1688 are not proven by this Harris DNA Group 4 page by Gleann Ghor. They are only the descents CLAIMED by the kit submitter based on pre 2000 books that cobined many of the unrelated Thomas Harris in Isle of Wight. All kit submitters may descend from either Thoma s Harris d1688 or Edward Harris d1677 or other unknown progenitors.