The REAL Moytoy

Started by Linda (Carr) Buchholz, Kit # FW864102C1 on Monday, July 9, 2018
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So I was misunderstanding what y'all were trying to say -- I thought you were saying Moytoy didn't exist. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

But at least we've added a lot of new documents proving he did exist. LOL

7/11/2018 at 3:56 PM

Documents are always welcome.

Carpenter Cousins from Trader Thomas Pasmere "Cornplanter" Carpenter, {Fictional} claimants are gather in numbers at the 6 person level. Ferreting out endogamy.

Collected FTDNA people to contact to get more of the 2 groups of Carpenters in America. Looking for some Devon Carpernter who will play.

The Vann to the Morris of Kings Mountain Known NA, mostly Southern Tuscorora, are getting their SNPs in gear. More later.

105 matches still in Ancestry in the tree of Robert Pounds, Jr and Robert, can you speak to if they are to this person listed above as many of the claimants are claiming him who are also kin to Van.

7/12/2018 at 2:41 PM

Yes, I am gathering more and more claimants and connecting with them to see if we have endogamy or not and unravel how it is that we claim this person. I have a solid paper trail up to this profiled person

Update: The known 127 descendants of Thomas Pasmere Cornplanter Carpenter
are gathering but are not claiming Cherokee. It is an Odom circle of Meherrin Iroquois.

7/12/2018 at 3:18 PM

I’d be interested to see a profile in the tree area.

The Odom wife 's people are core to Meherrin. This profiled ancestor is core to Piqua Shawnee. Linda Dearing will confirm his deed work from Robert's Marshall family.

7/12/2018 at 5:18 PM

All, I just found a land record for Robert Marshall where they mention Thomas. I found this on the Library of Virginia Online Records. Shall I save it to his media as I don't see a way to attach it to the discussion.

7/12/2018 at 5:31 PM

The image of Thomas Passmore's original land patent is attached to his profile, via the link to Wikitree. It can't hurt to attach the information on Robert Marshall's patent, which describes his land as running along that of Thomas Passmore, Carpenter. .

7/12/2018 at 5:56 PM

This Thomas Passmore

Thomas Passmore

Because the tree is isolated from the World Family tree, you may need to request management (actions menu on profile) before being able to work with it. I’m not sure - try first without that.

I made the tree from the “create a branch” option on the Research menu. It’s a “tree starter” that doesn’t have to connect to your own tree. So we know this Marshall existed, and we probably don’t have a profile yet, so that might be a good option also.

7/12/2018 at 5:56 PM

I am not an expert, but why wouldn't this be for Thomas Pasmere Carpenter? We know how things are misspelled, of course. Why is Carpenter capitalized if it's an occupation? I also don't see a comma between the name and the occupation. It seems like Carpenter is his last name.

7/12/2018 at 6:03 PM
7/12/2018 at 6:04 PM

I attached another file. Even the University of Virginia has this record indexed as being for Thomas Pasmere Carpenter. See that screenshot please.

7/12/2018 at 6:05 PM

Dianne Marie Dearring, A644121 It isn’t. His name was Passmore, we even raised up the One Name Guild for the Carpenter surname for their view. They confirm he was carpenter by occupation, not surname.

7/12/2018 at 6:06 PM

Yes, Indexing without the comma inserted by abstractors and compilers.

They didn’t have many punctuation rules.

7/12/2018 at 6:08 PM

That’s the whole point, his name is Thomas Passmore, his profession is carpenter. The original land grant document - not a transcript- makes that totally clear. It says “Thomas Passmore of James City, Carpenter....” The Maryland document says “I Thomas Pasmore of St. Marie’s Hundred, Carpenter....”

7/12/2018 at 6:09 PM

So for example the land patent was published, and following more contemporary punctuation, written this way:

ROBERT MARSHALL, Planter, 10 acs. within the Island of James Citty, W. on land of Mary Bayly, E. on land of Thomas Passmore, Carpenter, S. on the highway adj. to the Marshes of Goose hill & W. upon the highway parting the same from land now in the occupation of Elmer Phillipps. 20 Sept. 1628, p. 92.

7/12/2018 at 6:11 PM

Notice how Robert Marshall Planter is written out. It was a convention to describe yourself in this way. For whatever reason, the indexer missed the comma.

Just a thought -- sometimes people took on their occupation as their last name

Smith - came from Blacksmith
Cooper - came from Kuper - makers of bronze cups

7/12/2018 at 6:28 PM

You will see Thomas Passmore and his wife Jane listed on this page, and no Carpenter.

7/12/2018 at 6:44 PM

I can’t find anyone surnamed Carpenter in this book

Virginia Immigrants and Adventurers, 1607-1635: A Biographical Dictionary By Martha W. McCartney

7/12/2018 at 6:47 PM

And pay the indexers better ? :)

Write to LVA and ask them to re index ? :):)

7/12/2018 at 6:54 PM

Thomas never went by any name but Pas(s)more in America. He came to Jamestown with his wife, got land, got an offer to move to Maryland and get more land, moved to Maryland, and died there about 1656. I don't believe there is any documentation to show that he had children, but if he did they were named Pasmore.

People have created an entire mythology around the mis-reading of a transcript when the original documents were not generally and easily available. Now that anyone can view the original documents the mythology completely falls apart.

7/12/2018 at 7:13 PM

Regardless of any errors in transcribing or indexing these early land records, Thomas Passmore, the carpenter, didn't come to America as a stowaway, or as the son of a shipping family, didn't live in a cave, didn't marry an Indian, and didn't start a Cherokee dynasty. He had an English wife, lived in James City (Jamestown), Virginia and St. Mary's, Maryland, and had nothing to do with any Indians anywhere.

7/12/2018 at 8:10 PM

And no one ever thought any such thing until after 2005 and seeing the index error. There are not suggestions in the writings I’m aware of by the English describing early encounters with native Americans of any such story.

7/12/2018 at 9:06 PM

Take a look at page 741 here

Says Thomas Passmore’s widow Joanne on Aug 28 1626 ....

(Joanne & Jane were often interchangeable names).

I think maybe we are talking about 2 different people ???

Thomas Pasmere Carpenter was the son of Robert Conflict Carpenter and Susan Pasmere Jeffrey. Susan was daughter of John Jeffrey and Joan Pasmere. Pasmere was Thomas' middle name passed down from his mother's middle name and his grandmother's surname. Carpenter was his last name passed down from his dad.

John Jeffrey was the son of Comer Jeffrey & Abigail Carpenter

Joan Pasmere was the daughter of William Pasmere & Avis Towker.

The Joanne/Jane you mention wouldn't have fit because Joan (Pasmere) Jeffrey (grandmother of Thomas Pasmere Carpenter) was dead by 1624.

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