The REAL Moytoy

Started by Linda (Carr) Buchholz, Kit # FW864102C1 on Monday, July 9, 2018
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7/12/2018 at 10:35 PM

Linda (Carr) Buchholz, Kit # FW864102C1 Everything you just quoted is bogus. Invented. Fabricated. And disproved.

I’m sorry.

Thomas Passmere Carpenter never existed.

7/12/2018 at 10:47 PM

- The first use of a middle name is recorded in Rhode Island Vital Records in the 1680s. How do we know? The compiler wrote: this is the first use of a middle name. He was the authority on the topic. So whenever you see one before 1680, the word “bogus” should immediately pop into your head. (Note: I am talking about Engkand only)

- There was no man surnamed Carpenter at Jamestown. We know everyone who arrived. The Carpenters families from England to North America went to New England. They are well documented families. They did not go to Virginia or Maryland.

- Two Sources now have independently verified they are having trouble finding a ship owning Devon based Carpenter family in the 1500s / 1600s.

- the baptismal record for Susan Passmere puts her on the other side of Devon from the Carpenter man she supposedly married.

- there is no baptismal record for a Thomas Carpenter in or around Barnstaple in Devon in 1607.

This is covered in detail with proofs in the article

7/12/2018 at 10:54 PM

This is the Jane / Joane mentioned at Jamestown in 1626, wife of Thomas Passmere, a carpenter. We don’t know her maiden name.

Jane Passmore

7/12/2018 at 11:00 PM

This is the tree for the Plymouth family

Susan Carpenter

7/18/2018 at 3:34 PM

Those are just undocumented copies of trees from the Internet. The Pedigree Resource File is just user-submitted information just like Ancestry.

7/18/2018 at 4:46 PM

Do you know who this would be.....

St Leonard Shoreditch Baptisms 1558-1640
Robert Carpenter s blank Carpenter 24 NOV 1594

Private User
7/18/2018 at 4:46 PM

Actually, Erica, a few Carpenters do pop up south of the Mason-Dixon line later in the 17th century, most of them "found under cabbage leaves" as it were.

The first one on record, at least on the lower Eastern Shore, was Symon Carpenter "of Maryland".

7/18/2018 at 4:48 PM

How many Robert Carpenters were in that area at that time?

7/18/2018 at 4:57 PM

Do you REALLY think that the Robert Carpenter that married Susan Jeffrey had his first child at age 34? .................REALLY

7/18/2018 at 5:02 PM

Is there a profile at all for a Robert Carpenter on geni that shows a son born for that date?

Private User
7/18/2018 at 5:19 PM

Diana, Shoreditch is a London district with a long and sometimes dubious history.

"Shoreditch Church (dedicated to St Leonard) is of ancient origin. It is featured in the famous line "when I grow rich say the bells of Shoreditch", from the English nursery rhyme "Oranges and Lemons". " (Wikipedia,

7/18/2018 at 5:41 PM

It is only 1.5 miles between them.

7/18/2018 at 5:44 PM

Actually, it would have been less than that back then if it was a straight shot.

7/18/2018 at 5:59 PM

Ok....I thin I see now what you mean.....Robert was in "Devon", not "Devonshire". Could THAT be the problem....we have a Robert Carpenter in both places. Does anyone know who the Robert was in "Devonshire".

Private User
7/18/2018 at 6:01 PM

Devon = Devonshire. Same place. BUT it has no "St. Leonard's, Shoreditch". THAT is exclusively London.

If the dude was baptized in London, it is very likely that he was born in London.

Whether he lived in Devon(shire) later in life, deponent sayeth not.

7/19/2018 at 2:32 AM

Robert Carpenter that married Susan Jeffrey was from Plymouth, Devon. The other Robert Carpenter was in Devonshire. They are 200 miles apart.

7/19/2018 at 2:44 AM

Maybe Thomas Carpenter was the son of Robert Carpenter in Devonshire....not Devon.

7/19/2018 at 2:50 AM

There was no Thomas Carpenter in very early Virginia. There was a Thomas Passmere, a carpenter by trade.

7/19/2018 at 2:57 AM

There are lists, here are a few

(Kinard, June. comp.. Early Immigrants to Virginia from the 1500s and 1600s [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Operations Inc, 2000.
Original data: Published by The Researchers, PO box 39063, Indianapolis IN. 46239-0063.)

( Virginia Immigrants, 1623-1666 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Operations Inc, 1997.
Original data: Greer, George Cabel. Early Virginia Immigrants 1623-1666. Richmond, VA, USA: W. C. Hill Printing Co., 1912.)

( Records of the Virginia Company of London, Volume I-IV [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Operations Inc, 2002.
Original data: Susan Myra Kingsbury, ed. The Records of The Virginia Company of London. Vol. I-IV. Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office, 1906-1933.)

7/19/2018 at 3:22 AM

I have 36 matches for Carpenter. Do you think it was possible that Thomas Carpenter could have come from Plymouth, Massachusetts area? Here is 1 match....

Alice Bradford

7/19/2018 at 3:28 AM

I think it’s absolutely impossible for a Carpenter arriving to Massachusetts in the 1630s to also be in Jamestown in 1618.

I think you may have a Mayflower ancestor you didn’t know about. Now THAT would be worth pursuing.

If your Ancestry is at all like mine — and remember, I have West Virginia — sometime in the late 19th century a guy from New England married a gal from down south.

7/19/2018 at 3:34 AM

There was no Thomas Carpenter in Jamestown. We know everyone in Records. There wasn’t any. There was the mixup in the 2005 index of the land grant, missing a comma, adding a capital letter, so it read Thomas Passmore Carpenter. Instead of what the grant actually reads (which you can see on his profile): Thomas Passmore, Carpenter of ...

For the grief that indexer caused they could possibly be shot with a whiffle ball bop to the head and I wouldn’t object.

7/19/2018 at 4:27 AM

Again, “Thomas Carpenter” only exists in an index, the land grant reads, “Thomas Pasmore, of James City, Carpenter...” and his Maryland record reads, “Thomas Passmore of St. Marie’s City, Carpenter...”

Private User
7/19/2018 at 7:13 AM

Lieutenant Kije rides again....

(The link to the alleged musical comedy is broken, and I have been unable to find out if any such work was ever performed. The Prokofieff film and a ballet based on it do exist, however.)

7/19/2018 at 12:28 PM

:). It is such silliness.

Oh geez, could this be the origin of the “lived in a cave” piece of the Fabricated Moytoy Pedigree ?

I have no idea how valid this quote is ...


William Steele's book, The Cherokee Crown of Tannassy is an excellent description of how Moytoy of Great Tellico was appointed Emperor of the Cherokee in 1730. Sir Alexander Cuming successfully persuaded Moytoy to recognize and give his allegiance to the British king. Steele's work is based on Cuming's own journal. Cuming arrived in Tellico, guided by the Scottish trader, Ludovick Grant, by following the trail over Ooneekawy Mountain. Moytoy, headman of Great Tellico, gave Cuming a tour of the palisaded town. Moytoy pointed out scalps of enemy French Indians which hung on poles in front of the houses of warriors. Cuming was introduced to the powerful Tellico priest, Jacob the Conjurer. While at Great Tellico, Jacob took Cuming to petrifying cave filled with stalactites and stalagmites. In the cave was Jacob's Uktena crystal, which was kept in the cave and fed the blood of small animals twice a week and the blood of a deer twice a year. The Cherokee town of Chatuga was also enclosed in the palisades. ....

7/19/2018 at 12:30 PM

Notice the date of 1730. Jamestown founded 1607.

7/19/2018 at 1:43 PM

Remember I showed you the profile earlier for William Bradford and Alice Carpenter.....and wasn't Thomas Carpenter supposed to do with sailing to different locations, I think for trade....One place being Barbados....and I said MAYBE he had something to do with the following....

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