Osoche de Léon (Fictitious Person) - I'm descended from a fictitious person?!

Started by Christopher Parker on Wednesday, August 1, 2018
Showing all 14 posts
8/1/2018 at 4:39 PM

How was it decided that this person is fictitious? According to Geni, he's my 39th great grandfather.

8/1/2018 at 5:51 PM

Thanks! Looks like this is part of an Arthurian line that hasn’t gotten detached yet.

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8/1/2018 at 6:04 PM

Hello ,Osoche de Leon is my 41st GGF. What does fictitious mean, and why do you classify him as a fictitious person ? Can you answer that question...Thank you.

8/1/2018 at 6:15 PM

Though this family shows up In genealogies, they aren’t real people. They are from one of the versions of the Arthurian legends.

We have been working on detaching the fictional profiles from the World Tree but hadn’t caught these yet!

8/1/2018 at 7:21 PM

Intriguing... Are there any sources for this information? An online version of the legend(s) in question, for example?

Thanks!

8/1/2018 at 8:18 PM

The Overview for her father points you to some of the sources:

Withur d'Acqs, count of Léon (Parzival)

8/2/2018 at 7:24 AM

Justin Swanstrom -- I haven't got a copy of Parzival to hand; have you got one?

Ither the Red Knight is clearly fictional, but Osoche is showing up in sources that may be reliable. What I can't tell is if Ither is given a son in the poem, or if Osoche has been given a fictional father in the genealogies.

8/2/2018 at 8:02 AM

I do have a copy of Parzival here but it's not indexed. I'll have to find a read the relevant passages.

The glossary doesn't mention children. It says:

> Ither of Gaheviez. King of Cucumerlant; Utepandragun's maternal nephew; husband or lover of Lammire; related to Parzival by blood only through his grandfather (Parzival's great-great-great-grandfather) Mazadan, though Gahmuret claims him as 'maternal kinsman'; 'the Red Knight' until Parzival slays him."

8/2/2018 at 10:31 AM

I've now snuck a few minutes to read the chapter. Nothing more there. In fact, not as much there as in the glossary.

I wonder if this little piece will come through on a web link:
https://books.google.com/books?id=IJfhERmwDbUC&pg=PA206&lpg...

I'm guessing the connection to Osoche will be somewhere in the Holy Blood, Holy Grail materials. I'll check when I get time.

8/2/2018 at 11:13 AM

Thanks, hon. For now he's marked as real, but feel free to revert him to the realm of fiction.

8/2/2018 at 1:09 PM

In Laurence Gardner, Bloodline of the Holy Grail: The hidden lineage of Jesus revealed (1996), p. 185, we see:

Ywain "Founder of the House of Leon d'Acqs c.530" son of King Urien of Rheged and father of Withur "Comte de Leon d'Acqs". Withur is father of Ausoch, also Comte de Leon d'Acqs, who Ausoch is father of Pritelle, who married Hoel III, King of the Bretons.

You see the silliness. This was the line on Geni that got broken up. Totally at odds even with the medieval romance of Parzival.

It would be better to start with something like EBK, which says "LÉON, if it ever really existed, flourished in the 6th century. Men named Withur and Ausoch may have been two of its sovereigns."

http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/articles/bretart.html

8/2/2018 at 1:16 PM

Fair enough.

Let's put the Parzifal line elsewhere, should it appear.

Do we have a Holy Grail line?

8/2/2018 at 1:30 PM

You mean a Holy Blood, Holy Grail line? I don't think so. I was always going to start one, but haven't done it yet.

There's no rush, but we should probably in the end have at least three versions here -- (a) a disconnected line taken from primary documents, (b) a Parzival line for the literary tradition, and (c) a Holy Blood line for the pop history.

8/2/2018 at 2:17 PM

Lol.

Cause the medieval curators have so much extra time on their hands.

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