Chief Red Bird Brock - Son Jesse

Started by Diana Collins on Friday, January 18, 2019
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1/18/2019 at 8:12 AM

He had a son "James" and a son "Jesse". The following profile is his son (should be just plain "Jesse"...not "Jesse James"....

Jesse Brock

1/18/2019 at 9:36 AM

Fixed. Thank you for catching that.

1/18/2019 at 11:23 AM

Ok... I see that you fixed Jesse's profile to say "Jesse" instead of "Jesse James".... that's great. Now he needs to be added as a son to THIS profile of Aaron Brock 1721. Some tweeking needs to be done in the process....

1/18/2019 at 11:34 AM

Need a link of where he should be moved to.

1/18/2019 at 12:14 PM

Aaron Brock....1721.....the one that I started this discussion from....

Aaron "Totsuwha-Chief Red Bird" Brock

Jesse....

Jesse Brock

is the son of him.

1/18/2019 at 12:47 PM

Guess we need a citation for that.

Profile for Jesse cites:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/5052123/jesse-brock

Jesse Brock Memorial Photos Flowers Edit Share Learn about upgrading this memorial... Birth: Dec. 8, 1751 Cumberland County Virginia, USA Death: Oct. 13, 1843 Harlan Harlan County Kentucky, USA

Jesse Brock, Sr., was the son of Aaron Brock and Susan Caroline (Cherokee) Brock, the husband of Rebecca (Howard) Brock, and the father of Barthena (Brock) Sloan, James Calvin Brock, Jesse Brock, John Brock, George Brock, Susannah (Brock) Blanton, Aaron Brock, Amon Brock, Mary (Brock) Helton, Sarah (Brock) Coldiron, Charlotte (Brock) Melton, and Hetty (Brock) Helton.

His Revolutionary War pension lists him as 3/4 Cherokee.

1/18/2019 at 12:49 PM

Profile for Chief Red Brock does not have a son Jesse listed:

Some researchers believe him to be Chief Red Bird for which the Red Bird River in Clay and Leslie Counties are named. Aaron Cutsawah would be his American Indian name if this is the case as there are some places that refer to Chief Red Bird as Aaron Cutsawah Chief Red Bird Brock. However, on the 1805 Treaty of Tellico, Chief Red Bird's name was listed as Tochuwor with his "X" made by the name.

Alternate birth date: 8/21/1721

Aaron had five other children with Susan

1. Aaron b. 1748 Virginia m. Elizabeth Noe on 8/5/1776 in VA. b. a1850 VA
2. Mahala Susannah b.1749 Cumberland Co. VA d.1820 Clay Co. KY m. Edward Callahan in 1773 VA. Edward b.1773 VA d.1823 Clay Co. KY
3. George b.1752 Shenandoah Co. VA d. Jan 1839 Washington Co. IN. m. Julia Ann Bruner on May 28, 1824
4. Reuben b.1754 VA m. Elizabeth Camp in 1779 NC b.1760 NC
5. James Brock b. 1758 VA d.1834

1/18/2019 at 1:02 PM

There is no documentation for the father of Jesse Brock.
The Brock DNA study shows European DNA on the male line.
There is no document that lists an “Aaron Brock.” The most likely candidate for Jesse Brock’s father is a man named George Brock.
There were several Cherokee men named Redbird. None of them had a white family or any connection to the Brocks,
There is an excellent Brock Facebook page with all the documentation and DNA information.

1/18/2019 at 1:29 PM

Can you....by chance....view the info on here....

https://www.myheritage.com/search-records?action=person&siteId=...

1/18/2019 at 1:51 PM

Jesse (Hungry Fox) Brock
Dec 8 1751
Oct 13 1843

Parents as

Aaron (Totsuwha Do-tsu-wa Ꮩ Ꮷ Ꮹ to-chu-wo-r ᏙᏧᏬR c-u-tsa-wah CᎤᏣᏩ Red Bird Chief Red Bird Tisquaya Aaron Brock Tsisquaya Dotsuwa Tochuwor Toochalar" aka Carpenter) Brock
His father

Adi Wadi Willenawahi Christian Place Brock (born She who Carries Sun)
His mother

I’ve seen that in many family trees.

There is a plaque honoring Jesse Brock as a Rev War Soldier, I’ll upload it.

1/18/2019 at 1:53 PM
1/18/2019 at 1:57 PM

Shawnee Heritage Il lists it without citations, naturally

https://books.google.com/books?id=svkmCAAAQBAJ&lpg=PA151&ot...

1/18/2019 at 1:59 PM

Excerpt from a 78-page book entitled THE BROCKS: Ephraim Brock and Aggie Caldwell of Eastern Kentucky and Southwest Virginia: Their Ancestry and Descendants, by Luther F. Addington, published in 1972 by the Historical Society of Southwest Virginia, Wise, VA.

It begins with Jesse Brock (1751-1843), and neither the compiler Luther F. Addington nor the researcher who contributed to it (Robert W. Helton of Milwaukee, WI) mentioned the father or parents of Jesse Brock, indicating they did not know.

“pp. 1-3:

"Jesse Brock was born in Cumberland Co., VA 1751. He referred to his birth date in his pension statement (S 30887 in Archives Washington, DC as follows: 'I was born on the 8th day of December 1751 so my father told me. He always told me I was four years old the year of Braddock's Defeat.' ....

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~brockfamily/genealogy/BrockJesse-Rev...

1/18/2019 at 2:02 PM

In 1903 an interview of Lewis Jarvis (b. 1829) he described the first white hunters and settlers across the Blue Ridge into the Hancock Co., TN, and Harlan Co., KY, areas. He mentioned Russell Co., VA, where Jesse, James, and George Brock were on the 1798 tax list (meaning they were there in 1797).

REVOLUTIONARY WAR PENSION APPLICATION
Microfilm Series M-804, Roll 347
JESSE BROCK

State of Kentucky
Harlan Circuit Court October Term 1833

On this 16th day of October 1833 personally appeared in open court before the Honorable Joseph Eve Judge of the 15 Judicial District and Judge of the Harlan Circuit Court JESSE BROCK a resident citizen of Harlan County and State of Kentucky aged Eighty-Two years the 18th day of December next, who being first duly sworn according to Law, doth on his oath make the following DECLARATION in order to obtain the benefit of the provision made by the Act of Congress passed June 7th 1832, Who states that he enlisted in the Army of the United States the year he cannot now recollect, being an illiterate man, he can neither read or write, in Guilford County State of North Carolina for the term of three months, and served in the Regiment of the North Carolina State line the whole of Said Time, He can not recollect the number of the regiment, But he Served under the following named officers, General Alexander Martin, Colonel James Martin, his Capt. was by the name of Roylston. He states that he entered the service at Guilford Court House in the State aforesaid, and marched to Cross Creeke in the State of North Carolina where it was supposed that the British intended to land an Army. And after Serving out his Term of Service he was Discharged in the Lower part of North Carolina. ....

Sworn to and Subscribed the day and year aforesaid.
JESSE BROCK

The Court pronounced the following interrogatory to the applicant
1. When and what year were you born. Answer: I was born in Cumberland County in the State of Virginia on the 8th day of December 1751 - as my father has told me.

2. Have you any record of your age. Answer: I don't know that there is any record of my age, my father always told me that I was four years old the year of Bradies (?) Defeat.

3. Where was you living when called into the service; where have you lived since the Revolutionary War, and where do you now live. Answer: I lived in Guilford County, State of North Carolina, the first and second time. And I lived in Surry County in the State of North Carolina when I was called into service the last time. And the same Spring after the close of the war I moved back to Guilford County in the State of North Carolina, where I lived a few years. But I can not remember the precise time. I then moved to Franklin County in the State of Virginia, Where I lived several years. I then moved back to Guilford County State of North Carolina, But I can't say how many. I then moved to Russell County in the State of Virginia where I lived four years, I then moved to Knox County State of Kentucky, which was afterwards stricken off to Harlan County Kentucky Where I now live, I have been here thirty four or five years.

4. How were you called into Service Were you drafted, or did you volunteer, or were you a substitute, and if a substitute for whom. Answer: The first and second time I was drafted and the last time I volunteered.

5. State the name of some of the regular officers who were with the Troops when you surved such Continental and Militia Regiments as you can recolllect, and the General circumstances of your survice. Answer: General Green commanded at Guilford ~ But I belonged to a scouting party And I don't remember the name of any more of the officers except what I have . . . .
to be continued . . .

An affidavit by men who knew Jesse was filed 16 October 1833 by James Hall clergyman, John N. Howard, and John Coldiron.

JESSE BROCK was granted a pension of $30 per annum from 16 December 1833 to 4 March 1842. Agent notified 27 September 1844 "Date of death not on A.B."

No widow or family information was given in his pension file.

——

January 1856, a Harlan Co. court document stated, "Ordered by the Court that Satisfactory proof has been made that JESSE BROCK Decet on the 13th day of Oct 1843 and left no living widow but he has 6 heirs living AARON BROCK, AMON BROCK, SALLY COLDIRON, POLLY HELTON, SUSANNAH BLANTON, THENY STONE."
Not listed, but mentioned in Elijah Brock testimony to Annie Walker Burns were JAMES and JESSE BROCK, JR., who apparently predeceased their father (Harlan Co. Court Orders, 1840-60, p. 358).

Not mentioned in either was GEORGE BROCK, who is believed by descendants to be Jesse's son, and had land dealings with him in Harlan Co. DNA of his descendants does not match the other descendants of Jesse, so his relationship is uncertain. George outlived Jesse about twenty years, dying ca 1865 in Scioto Co., OH, where he moved in 1819. Nevertheless, he and his descendants are included below in a 3-generation register.

JESSE BROCK was, by family tradition and a Strong family history by his descendants, the son of Aaron Brock and his Cherokee wife, who it is said lived in a tree when first coming to what is now Harlan Co., KY, when it was part of Lee Co., VA. Today's Blanton Forest State Nature Preserve along Pine Mountain in Harlan Co. is the largest old-growth forest in Kentucky, and one of the largest in the United States; the trees are enormous.

JESSE BROCK was said by his grandson Elijah Brock to be about 3/4 Indian. Aaron Brock is believed to be Chief Red Bird, the Cherokee, a treaty signer.

DNA test results of Brock great-gr-gr-gr-gr-gr-grandsons of Jesse shows their Y-chromosome patrilineal ancestor to be Melungeon, that is, Jewish, which can describe many part-Cherokee and many of the neighboring families related to the Brocks by blood or marriage.

1/18/2019 at 2:04 PM

Ok....I'm workin' on George....in the meantime, Aaron DID have a daughter Mahala Susannah....correct? Here is her profile....can you disconnect and re-connect to Aaron...

Mahala Susannah Callahan

1/18/2019 at 2:13 PM

I think she’s probably in the right place, because she’s Jesse’s sister, and his father was European. According to the post above they had other siblings.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Brock-457

Mahala Mahala Susannah Brock (b: 1749 in Cumberland Co., VA) and Edward Callahan were married: 1773 in Montgomery Co., VA -- brought to Court for having bastard children out of wedlock, they were forced to marry on the spot. [13]

The name of Aaron Brock as father of Jesse Brock and his sister Mahala Susanna Brock Callahan was mentioned in two printed family histories: 1. Strong Family, by Mrs. J. C. Hurst, Lexington, KY, 1958. She wrote, "The Strong family of Breathitt and Owsley Cos., KY, was established by William, who was born about the year 1768 in VA and died about the year 1848. He was married about the year 1790 to Jennie Callahan (commonly called Jane), who was born about the year 1779 and died about the year 1815. She was a daughter of Edward and Mahalah Brock Callahan. Mahalah was a daughter of AARON BROCK and a sister of JESSE BROCK, who lived in Harlan County. The Brocks were part Indian." 2. Davi(d)son: The First Ten, the Second Ten, and Many Allied Families, by Charlotte Davison, Robbie Jean Davison; assisted by Mary Ruth Moffitt Stevens; published Braddyville, IA, by Violet Pence Apple, 1985; pp. 4-5.

1/18/2019 at 2:39 PM

When you all get these lines figured out let me know we have lines here that goes down to my Myers lines and Osborn and Owens I also have Sizemores I have to find that connect to these guys. I have some in for George “Goldenhawk” Sizemore I believe these lines goes into him as well. Might want to start a Chief Redbird project as well they have George “Goldenhawk” Sizemore Project it might help with some of the lines love to see all descendants listed in group. I got DNA I can’t place on Sizemore lines as well.

Billie

1/18/2019 at 2:43 PM

Billie June Keaffaber Jump in on the research! Not my part of Kentucky.

1/18/2019 at 2:44 PM

Well, Breathitt is, for Quaker origin Barnes with bad tempers. :)

1/18/2019 at 2:54 PM

Harlan County, Kentucky Genealogy is on Facebook Lists another sister to Jesse Brock and correction: his rev war pension application does NOT list him as 3/4 Cherokee.

His application is nicely typed up here:

https://revwarapps.org/s30887.pdf

1/18/2019 at 2:56 PM

This is the sister of Jesse in the wrong place, I will move her

Mary Osborne

1/18/2019 at 3:00 PM

Erica,
I have been researching not real great on Native American research though. If I was be able to find these Myers. But so far here what I have on Chief Redbird tickled me there was Lines to him.

https://www.geni.com/path/Billie-June-Keaffaber+is+related+to+Chief...

Catherine "Caty" Sizemore (1835 - 1907)
mother-in-law of 4th cousin 4x removed
George A Montgomery (1859 - 1930)
Son of Catherine "Caty" Sizemore
Martha J. Fletcher (1862 - 1951)
Wife of George A Montgomery
Nancy Margaret Whitaker (1839 - 1903)
Mother of Martha J. Fletcher
Francis Asberry "frank" Whitaker (1796 - 1863)
Father of Nancy Margaret Whitaker
Reverand Mark R Whitaker II (1748 - 1814)
Father of Francis Asberry "frank" Whitaker
Mary Ann Wilson (1729 - 1797)
Mother of Reverand Mark R Whitaker II
Thomas Wilson (1691 - 1744)
Father of Mary Ann Wilson
William Wilson (1722 - 1801)
Son of Thomas Wilson
George B Wilson (1740 - 1859)
Son of William Wilson
Thomas Wesley Wilson (1782 - 1862)
Son of George B Wilson
Elizabeth Ann Wilson (1818 - 1854)
Daughter of Thomas Wesley Wilson
William H Potts (1840 - 1866)
Son of Elizabeth Ann Wilson
Alonzo Buck "Lon" Potts (1877 - 1955)
Son of William H Potts
Freda Belle Potts (1910 - 1975)
Daughter of Alonzo Buck "Lon" Potts
Virginia 'Jenny' Lee Myers (1941 - 2006)
Daughter of Freda Belle Potts
Billie June Bright
You are the daughter of Virginia 'Jenny' Lee Myers

Ok wonder why my lines were deleted in Geni. I had these linked up on here. They same family above Brock Sizemore lines. Anyway these 2 ways I connect to them.

Billie

1/18/2019 at 3:03 PM

I have many, many (50 some) dna matches for people named Brock or have Brock in their tree. One for sure is a descendant of Jesse. I just started looking at them, so more may connect into this tree. My husband has 81 matches to people named Brock or have Brock in their tree. Somehow, he connects a few ways to my Straight Tail tree. We BOTH have a lot of dna matches for Andersdotter.....in Sweden or Netherlands I think. NO CLUE HOW? (Please, no WV jokes)

1/18/2019 at 3:17 PM

Profile to attach Jesse’s siblings to

George? Brock

1/18/2019 at 3:19 PM

If the male line of Aaron Brock "Chief Red Bird Brock" is supposed to be Native American, his tree needs to be chopped.

I'll bet Jesse somehow connects to here....

George Brock

1/18/2019 at 3:19 PM

Diane,

I have to break this line up bit to show my direct lines cause Geni not recognizing it but if you put the Ancestery and Geni togeather there links there lol. Hey least you not making circles like me Diane I was shocked finding 2 lines to Brocks Sizemores and yet can’t find the Native American closer to me. Will have to check those Myers you mentioned as I have almost 100% reliability the Catherine Katie Sizemore line here not the 3-5 Cousin Sizemores I showing in DNA there has to be other links that link us and Chief Redbird the common source in both lines so I assuming only there more Sizemores I linking too. Somewhere I not seeing so yea I interested big time in this family. I will help where I can though but this family has me so confused I don’t trust anything just make sure I have right information if I post. But as far as I know these the lines. I will try start when I recover from surgery I on high powered pain meds big time here.

https://www.geni.com/path/Billie-June-Keaffaber+is+related+to+Franc...

Billie

1/18/2019 at 3:54 PM

If you’re going to do this tree right, throw out the family trees you see. Throw out the relationship calculator. Start with primary sources, they seem decent enough for time & place [no Birth Records]. Find the Facebook group and what the descendants have collectively learned. Do good genealogy and we’ll finally have a good tree on Geni instead of the dreck it is now, I say with all due respect.

I would start by collecting the known or even suspected siblings and making those into good, sourced profiles.

1/18/2019 at 3:58 PM

Billie June Keaffaber my advice is to forget about Chief Redbird. Pretend he didn’t exist. It’s Jesse’s Mother that is more likely to have Native Ancestry. But do this the hard way by collecting documents.

1/18/2019 at 4:00 PM

Erica,
I just added documents for Jesse Brock you can check out in Media not adding to much because I higher then kite from bladder surgery couple days ago. Not doing much just helping with documents I found letting you all figure out where people belong least till I feel better if that ok you know me I check with you and others make sure all ok. I want it correct too.
Billie

1/18/2019 at 4:53 PM

Erica,
I just put stuff I found for census records Alabama Surname files ect please see the media if not in correct spot I will remove and replace to right people.

Mahala Susannah Callahan

Billie

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