Elizabeth Welch (Upham) - Elizabeth Upham, wife of Thomas Welch, of Malden, MA -- Mess in the Welches of Massachusetts

Started by Hatte Anne Blejer on Saturday, April 6, 2019
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4/6/2019 at 10:40 PM

Due to recent and pass merges, several Welch and Welsh families have been confused. This family of Charlestown, Suffolk, Massachusetts was confused with a family of Charleston, South Carolina.

I'm in the process of cleaning up the mess, but if you are a descendant, manager, or curator of any of these families, please chime in since I'm still looking for sources and information.

I'll tag the various unmerged male Welch / Welsh profiles that need more work next.

4/6/2019 at 10:49 PM

And is Thomas Welch, of Charleston really an Irongay Welsh, descendant of several well known figures, or is this wishful thinking?

I need help with the South Carolina family for certain.

4/6/2019 at 11:00 PM

Erica Howton Can you weigh in on the last question please?

4/6/2019 at 11:02 PM

I'm a descendant of Mercy Spaulding, nee Welch, whose origins seem to be mysterious, and I'm not sure that there are two families confused in the Massachusetts Welches.

There's a Malden family who seems to move to Plainfield.

4/6/2019 at 11:07 PM

Yes - Malden, MA; Rehoboth, MA; Plainfield, CT; Swansea, MA; and Lebanon, CT

And by the way, also involved in the unification of the Welch / Welsh were a Welch family of Lancaster County (Dauphin County), Pennsylvania. I have to look for that profile.

4/7/2019 at 12:01 AM

What I can do is follow this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Welsh_of_Irongray

And see how it leads.

Haven’t looked at this in years, and I would not have followed the descent line, as it’s not my family.

4/7/2019 at 12:39 AM

Elizabeth Welch

She was married to a Thomas Welch of Charlestown, not of Malden. I put citations in her profile.

Schirado cites Wyman. The FindAGrave doesn’t give the citation but it reads like Wyman.


4/7/2019 at 1:42 AM

William Welsh, of Malden Belongs to the Malden Welch family, which is not Elizabeth Upham’s.

In regards to Thomas Welch, of Charleston, all I know is there are MyHeritage trees.

I do not have knowledge of the children of John ‘the Covenanter’ Welsh, of Irongray

Wikipedia listed one line of descent without references & it’s not on Geni.

So the managers of the children attached to him will need to show their source info.

4/7/2019 at 2:19 AM

I did find notes for Thomas Welch, of Charleston & added them to profile.

4/7/2019 at 2:34 AM

Captain George Welsh is not listed as a child of John ‘the Covenanter’ Welsh, of Irongray that o can find, however his son Rev. Andrew Welsh, Sr., is noted as a descendant of Elizabeth Knox. So Rev. Josias Welsh, of Templepatrick supposedly had only the one child, but perhaps George is slightly “off,” but not a lot.

I disconnected attached children born in places that made no sense.

So Hatte, if you straighten out your Malden vs Charlestown people, I think we’re done. I’m comfortable with the sourcing of Sgt. Thomas Welch, of Charlestown

4/7/2019 at 3:14 AM

Well, I have bad news for the Charleston SC Welch’s.


John Welsh, minister of Kirkpatrick-Irongray, in the county of Dumfries, is known to have been a son of Mr Josias Welsh. ....

Dangerous undertaldngs, he was wont l to say, prompted and stimulated him. When the Covenanters were defeated at Bothwell Bridge, he retired to London. He died at Wapping on the 9th January 1681, in the house of the widow of Mr Alexander Carmichael, minister of the first Scottish church established in the metropolis, and which met at Lothbury. His remains were deposited in the grave of his paternal grandfather ; his funeral was very numerously attended, every dissenting minister in London inviting his people to be present.

He was married, but died without issue.

4/7/2019 at 6:19 AM

However there might be a descent from Josias Welsh.

William Welsh

From http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/charles-rogers/genealogical-m...

Shirley, youngest daughter of Thomas Welsh of Edinburgh, married, in 1788, David Allan, the eminent historical painter. Cherishing certain extravagant notions respecting the Jews, she, subsequent to her husband's death, which took place in 1796, sailed for India in the hope of there discovering the lost tribes.


Barbara Anne, only surviving daughter of David Allan and Shirley Welsh, married Mr Simon, a converted Jew. She accompanied him to America. Like her mother, she evinced a deep interest in the recovery of the ten tribes.

4/7/2019 at 12:34 PM

Great work https://www.geni.com/people/Erica-Howton/36367782035001158. I just looked at the Charleston, South Carolina family.

I'll focus on the Massachusetts family.

4/8/2019 at 2:08 AM

Okay I sorted out the Swansea - Bristol - Rehoboth Welches from the Charlestown Welches. I'm a Swansea. It took forever to add the 13 children of Elizabeth Upham and Sgt Thomas Welch, especially since there are 3 Johns (all died in childhood) and four Jonathans (one lived to adulthood and had offspring).

I think PA, MA/CT, South Carolina are all in much better shape now. I've MPed, locked fields, locked relationships, and put a Curator's Note, as well as used toponymic appositives (, of Swansea, of Charlestown, etc.).

4/8/2019 at 2:25 AM

Looks great, Hatte !

Frankly I don’t think the Welch trees were ever good before. Hannah Mousall missing her husbands being an obvious case in point (I used to be close to Mousalls).

4/8/2019 at 12:19 PM

Point of fact, my Welch tree was incorrect, so I'm glad we sorted it out for the most part. My family was the Swansea branch and now I see how close Bristol, RI, Swansea, MA, and Rehoboth, MA were.

4/8/2019 at 12:28 PM

Bristol is really confusing. For a long time I couldn’t understand how they died in MA & were buried in RI. :)

4/8/2019 at 12:54 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_County,_Massachusetts Very informative.

My Williams were in Taunton, which became the seat of Bristol County, MA, so I should know much more about the administrative districts and history. Looking at Bristol County, MA I have ancestors in Taunton, Raynham, Rehoboth, Swansea, Dighton (named for my ancestor, wife of Richard Williams, Francis Deighton), and possibly Norton and Easton. All clustered together.

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