Richard Warren, "Mayflower" Passenger - Richard Warren Y-DNA

Hi George, you are my 9th cousin! Richard Warren is my 9th great grandfather. My DNA is BY3166. My descendancy from Richard is mixed gender.

Most definitely can't have 2 different y DNA markers. Something is definitely amiss and have attached their DNA to Richard Warren when they are not in fact DNA related. But which one?

What you need to do is open up the dna tab to show the dna tree. That should reveal where the different Y DNA lines are coming from.

I’m going to try and then post profile links, but I’m on a tablet so I’d appreciate more views.

The I M253 is coming from a line managed by Private

Her Grandfather is Earl Stanley Warren

(Showing the conflict - his son does not)

His path to Richard Warren (7th gg) is

https://www.geni.com/path/Earl-Warren+is+related+to+Richard-Warren-...

Earle Stanley shows as a son of Henry Grant Warren managed by Mary Sanford Drexler

And I’m wondering if Mary could have a look / see at this also, she has an excellent Geni tree.

R 269 (37 markers) was added by Douglas Warren - his profile shows it but his father’s shows the conflict. His father’s path to Richard Warren (7th gg) is https://www.geni.com/path/Virgil-Warren+is+related+to+Richard-Warre...

Someone is not a true Warren. Very interesting!

Or it’s a wrong test linking? (That happens too).

I’ve just added citations for Earl Stanley Warren and the family grouping all looks correct.

Definitely an interesting development, because we might be needing to look “up” tree.

I was really hoping for an obvious bad merge, but you guys are doing too good a job on the tree. :)

This is George Gifford Gordon’s mother to Richard Warren (8th gg)

https://www.geni.com/path/Elizabeth-Gifford+is+related+to+Richard-W...

It’s a Massachusetts line, familiar to me, at a glance looks good (Churches!)

So our issue is going to be Midwest?

Here is John Patrick’s line: https://www.geni.com/path/John-McCaffrey+is+related+to+Richard-Warr...

So what’s the Y DNA for Richard Warren, as per the Mayflower Society?

As of 2010, they didn’t have one:

https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/warren/13877/

Here’s the ftDNA Warren project, which is not accepted as “official” for MSD without a paper trail of course. I don’t see a Richard Warren ...

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/warren/default.aspx?section=yr...

Factoid: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Taylor_Swift&mobilea... is a Warren descendant

Here’s the Mayflower DNA project

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/mayflowersociety?iframe=ycolor...

Not sure I can interpret this - I don’t see surname Warren in the Warren Group.

James Warren, of Woodbridge Is the I M253 line

His brother Nathaniel Warren is the R M269 line

Y-dna "I" & "R" can not be full brothers

I think I found the problem and it’s a pedigree one.

The James Warren who married Abigail Thomas is described here:

https://mathcs.clarku.edu/~djoyce/gen/report/rr17/rr17_015.html#P27311

But I believe the parents are wrong there, because this James Warren had no children:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/23404405/james-warren

And here’s the answer.

https://www.ancestry.com/boards/surnames.warren/3225.2.1.1.1/mb.ashx

Do you know the reasons why the Mayflower does not accept our James Warren as the son of John Warren & Naomi Bates?

I emailed them and asked that question. They did not respond.

I also have James Warren b. circ 1720 of Connecticut and Abibail Thomas b. 17 Jul 1724 Wallingford, CT as the grandparents of our Miles Warren.

There has been no validation of James' ancestry and the MAYFLOWER SOCIETY has refuted the possibility of John Warren & Naomi Bates.

——

I created a new profile for Lieut. James Warren who married Deborah Warren and disconnected James Warren ( I-M253) who married Abigail Warren as son of John Warren, Sr. & Naomi Warren

Looks like Richard Warren of the Mayflower might be R M269

Amazing and fast work Erica! Great job at figuring it all out. I believe you are 100% correct :)

Y dna only goes father to son. I & R are two separate LARGE branches. I'm R-M269 WAY down the branches to R-DF19 on down to R-Z27257 ( the same as "compiled" William the C. of 1066 ) on down to R-Z40804, a tiny twig, to Benjamin Gifford b 1728. I have 6 Pilgrim ancestors approved by the Mayflower Society. All my lines have 1 or more females between me & the Mayflower so it does not help confirmation. I have solid paper & DNA trail to William Gifford d Sandwich, MA 1687. I've been trying to find his parents for 2 years. Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you, Private User & George Gordon Gifford for bringing attention. I’m glad we got it right for Geni !

Now to make sure we have Taylor Swift right ...

Richard Warren, "Mayflower" Passenger is Taylor Swift's 9th great grandfather.

https://www.geni.com/path/Taylor-Swift+is+related+to+Richard-Warren...

I just checked my copy of Mayflower Families Through Five Generations, Vol. 18, Part 1 which covers the first four generations of descendants of Richard Warren, except for daughter Sarah who married John Cooke, Mayflower Passenger and son of Francis Cooke, Mayflower Passenger. It does list John & Sarah's children, but there is also a note that their family is followed further in the volume which covers Francis Cooke. In the fourth generation, John Warren (Richard3, Nathaniel2, Richard1) m. 1st Naomi Bates. Their first child and son James, born Scituate 4 Dec 1714, bp. 8 Sept 1717, d.y. Next was a daughter Naomi and third was another James, bp. Scituate 3 Aug 1718. I can see how someone may have conflated two different James Warrens. Some of Richard's descendants did move to Connecticut including some with the surname of Thomas (my line - and from my dad's mother up, the same line through which my dad's sister joined GSMD - runs through a couple of generations of Thomases in Connecticut, but I do not know if they are connected to the Thomases connected to this James Warren.

Further, John Warren's & Naomi Bates's son James is designated as descendant number 802. But, being in the fifth generation, any marriage and offspring would be listed in either Part 2 or Part 3 of the above volume, whichever one covers the fifth generation of descendants of Nathaniel (Gen 2).

As I read the discussion here, I sensed some confusion. In order to determine Richard Warren's YDNA haplogroup, the line must be a direct unbroken male descendant. In other words, the tester must be a Warren male in direct line to Richard. I have noticed a number of haplogroups being offered for Richard - including one on Mayflower History which gives his YDNA haplogroup as E-M35. I do not know the source of their determination. I have checked FTDNA and have not found any reliable YDNA from a direct Warren male descendant.