Pathkiller tree - date issues

And further notes:

“Her birth year is 1712 and she is supposedly the wife of Chief Path Killer who's birth year is around 1742-1745....she would have been in her 30's when he was born. By the time he was old enough to marry she would have been in her late 40's early 50's and she died around that age period. And Sarah (Path Killer) Gardenhire is not Chief Path Killer's granddaughter she was his daughter and is documented as such in the Blair vs. Path Killer case in Tennessee. Just thought I would share this information.”

Peggy Pathkiller died in 1829; she left a will naming several children and grandchildren. She was probably born about 1770-1780.

So the notes here are wrong?

Peggy "Chowayoucah" Ratliff

Can we get a list of her children & grandchildren?

Also the parentage of Sarah "Sally" Gardenhire looks like it was Disputed? How is she best placed in the tree?

Peggy Chahwahyookah, probable wife of Path Killer is your third cousin four times removed's wife's grandmother.
You
→ Viet Nam War Veteran, SFC Freddie Ralph Hicks, Sr
your father → Viola Isabelle Hicks
his mother → John Thomas Edgar Webber
her father → John Richard Carter Webber
his father → Samuel Webber
his father → Sarah White ‘Sally’ Webber
his mother → Nancy Ann Chapman
her mother → Lewis Whitehead
her brother → Mary Ann Whitfield
his daughter → Esther Gardenhire
her daughter → James T. Gardenhire
her son → Sarah "Sally" Gardenhire
his wife → Path Killer II
her father → Peggy Chahwahyookah, probable wife of Path Killer
his mother

I hesitate to say that I think perhaps part of the issue is so many have been "informed" their line is but a "fantasy"

Let it be known that I am MOST "happy" to help but any time I see the very word "Cherokee", I cringe. My NA (and AA) is on both sides.

I am FOLLOWing this Discussion and will be doing my best to help. I just want it to be acknowledged that so many of "us" have NA that we are not able to connect to or are not able to DEFEND when it comes time for a line to be cut.

That being "said", I will ask others to please join this discussion if they are able and I will do what I can.

Mary Jo Hicks Trimpe has Pathkiller in her tree and Ancestry says she has Native Amercican ancestry
Mary Jo Hicks Trimpe

But I have not connected him to her here.
Is this HIS Findagrave?:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/5028879

Those who have him in their tree are also on her DNA match list on Ancestry and here on Geni.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/7713334/chief-pathkiller

I do apologize for speaking on my cousin's behalf without first consulting her.

Although no definitive evidence remains about Chief Pathkiller's marriage(s) and family, a full-blood Cherokee woman named Peggy was probably his last wife. The "Records of St. Clair County, Alabama" (page 18) include an entry stating that "Peggy Pathkiller's settlement of estate, Oct. 31, 1833 was paid to her heirs: $455 to daughter Nancy, $375 to Nelly, $450 to Crying Snake. To Quata and George Cammell, $1,200; to Eustace $300, to Jenny $1188.60; to Qualocoo and Beaver Tail $100 and to Charqahyooca and Richard Ratliff $300." Peggy's will names five daughters (and some of their husbands) but no sons. Grandson Daniel Ratliff lived long enough to file an Eastern Cherokee app, but he stated that he did not know who his mother's parents were, only that they were full-blood Cherokee. [NARA M1104. Eastern Cherokee Applications of the U.S. Court of Claims, 1906-1909. Application #1078, Daniel Ratliff image at [https://www.fold3.com/image/1/221156373]

Pathkiller apparently had a son, also called Pathkiller. Both men signed the Treaty of 1817, making it clear that they were two different people. There is extensive correspondence between the senior Pathkiller and Andrew Jackson between 1811 and 1818 which mentions, but does not name, a son. [transcriptions of correspondence at [https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000080901306062& letters]

Daughter Chowayuka was born about 1803/1804. She is listed as "Chiuke," wife of Richard Ratliff in Starr in the Ratliff family. Her parents are not listed.

Excellent, I’ve added the notes to her profile, and updated Peggy "Chowayoucah" Ratliff & Daniel Ratliff

So we are missing daughters Nancy & ??? (Geni currently shows Peggy, Nellie & Jennie).

Pathkiller was at the Battle of the Horseshoe Bend fighting against the Red Stick Uprising. He was a colonel in 1813 when they mustered. https://home.nps.gov/hobe/learn/historyculture/upload/cherokee.pdf
Perhaps some information may be gleaned from this location and event.

These look right:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/7713334/chief-pathkiller

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/53506838/peggy-pathkiller

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/82351128/peggy-ratliff

If this is correct:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/5028879/chief-pathkiller

He’s not Peggy’s child.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/43313529/polly-ann-moore Looks like a bad link.

I’m wondering if we shouldn’t just disconnect Nellie 'Leaf' Ugalogv Pathkiller as “mythical?” She’s a supposed wife of Dragging Canoe and she doesn’t seem at all like the children described in Peggy’s Will.

Nellie/Leaf is an Internet myth. Dragging Canoe’s wife is unknown. He had one known child, a son.

Done.

This is from the profile notes for Pathkiller:

—-

Kathryn Forbes writes: “Peggy's will names five daughters, no sons. Only first names for the daughters are given, so no way to trace them. The accounts for the will record a payment to daughter Chou a yu ka and Richard Ratliff. Their son Daniel lived long enough to file an Eastern Cherokee app, but he stated that he did not know who his mother's parents were, only that they were full-blood Cherokee. There is no way of knowing for certain if Peggy was the widow of Chief Pathkiller (although that seems likely given the amount of property - mostly enslaved people - that she left) and who was the father or fathers of the daughters named in the will. There is just no way to trace these people. Peggy left her house to her youngest daughter, Jenny, so it's possible that a valuation might be located. There were only a handful of whites living in Turkey Town in 1835; almost all the residents were full-bloods.”

Some possible offspring with Peggy ("woman of the Red Paint Clan of The Overhill Cherokee, NC".) include:

Nunnaa hi-Diha Pathkiller B. abt 1764 (this would be Path Killer II)
Nancy Ann "Polly"
U’ga’lo’gv “Leaf” (Nellie)
Crying Snake
Quatee (Elizabeth) may have married George Cammell
Eustace
Jennie / Jenny
Qualocoo may have married Beaver Tail
Charwahvooca “Peggy” may have married Richard Ratliff
You’choo’howee’yuh “Bear Meat” [source?]
1. Tradition is that Path Killer II (aka Nunna-tihi or Nunnaa hi-Diha) married a Susan "Sookey" Martin and had at least three children: daughter Ailsey, son Archilla or Archibald, and daughter Sarah. Ailsey reportedly married a William Gardenhire and Taylor Eldridge, while Sarah reportedly married a James T. Gardenhire. A legal case in East Tennessee in the county of Loudon surrounding the ownership of a 640-acre piece of property and a ferry known as Blair's Ferry involved either Path Killer II or his son Archilla Pathkiller as well as the Gardenhires. Some descendants report that Path Killer II, or Chief Nunnaa Hi-Diha Path Killer (Jr.), died in 1841 near Old Fort Wayne, Arkansas, located 27 miles west of Bentonville, Arkansas, in what is now in Delaware County, Oklahoma.

2. Nancy Ann "Polly" reportedly married a Robert or Alec Moore and they were the parents of (from https://www.manataka.org/page18.html):

——

I’m wondering now that we’ve tightened the dates for Peggy if we shouldn’t place Pathkiller ll to an earlier NN wife with caveats that we can’t be sure Pathkiller l & ll were actually father / son.

And that we enter profiles for Nellie & Nancy, especially to show that Leaf is impossible?

If the second Pathkiller was the son of the first he must have been by another wife. There was more than one Pathkiller family in 1835 - Archilla and his siblings in Tennessee, “N” Pathkiller in Turkey Town, Al, and a third family in Georgia. The man recorded as “N” is most likely related to the chief, the others are more likely a coincidence of names.

Done. N.N.

So Cynthia why is my Native American Ancestors not on my tree here that you've been working on for years?

Mary Jo Hicks Trimpe Geni is a collaborative tree and corrections are made and sources are added, including DNA and records...
I have not been working on your tree for years but working on the Big Tree in general.