Lazar Beran - Lazar Beran

Started by Pierre Kraus on Monday, March 30, 2020
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  • HBMa1144 Luze Death 28 Dec 1825 Bernard Beran (f5n5)
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Are Lazar Beran and Bernard Beran the same man ?

What evidence that Lazar/Bernard is the son of the Samuel berna who married Anna Halek
Kronfeld ? It could be the son of the Samuel Beran who maried Katharina !

And notice that Elisabeth/Luise is also born in 1817.

Intersting point : The "haus nummer" is 24 as for many other Samuel's child.

This is a very complex family. So to avoid confusion, please can you give the direct links to the people you mention:
Lazar Beran ( I have at least 5 on my database)
Bernard Beran ( I have at least 8 on my database)

For this Lazar Beran (Lazar Beran), I already wrote on the profile:
"Death Bernard Beran Luze HBMa1144 f5. Parents not stated. "

The connection to the parents was made by Fred Barton. "Lazar Beran was added as Sarah Weiner (Beran)'s brother by Fred Barton.Apr 19, 2018 at 11:38 PM

So I think that you need to ask him for any evidence.

If you mean the Samuel Aron Beran who married Katharina Gartner, I think they can be excluded as parents as they lived in House No 2 between 1817 & 1825. Samuel Beran (married to Anna Kornfeld) lived in House 24 which is where Bernard Beran (http://www.badatelna.eu/fond/1073/reprodukce/?zaznamId=1510&rep...) died.

My information on the Beran family came, I believe, from Czech genealogist Julius Müller, a few years before I discovered Geni.com – my sister and I hired him to help unravel our Breitenfeld-Beran families in the 2000s. I'll try and find the original notes on the case. Of course with the advent of the vastly expanded internet, I came across much more, and the information might be subject to more clarification and documentation. I'll see what I can find, particularly about Lazar/Sarah Weiner.

I've located the source for the information which I was transcribing; I didn't label it well, but it's a chart of Luže cemetery with names, dates, addresses, frequently including parentage, cause of death, etc.

I had extracted a list of everyone in the chart who lived at Luže 24, with parentage if specified, and I'll post that as well.

Hi Peter
I apologize.
The Bernard Kornfeld I'am speaking is the one who died on the 28/12/1825 (HBMa 1144 im 7 http://www.badatelna.eu/fond/1073/reprodukce/?zaznamId=1510&rep...).
I assume he is Samuel Beran maried to Anna Halek Kornfeld 's son, specially because the « Haus Nummer » is 24.

However, my questions are :
1 - Why is he called Lazar in Geni Trees ?

2 - Why doesn't he appear in the index : Index Luze HBMa 1148 im 5 http://www.badatelna.eu/fond/1073/reprodukce/?zaznamId=1515&rep...
as other for others children of Samuel Beran ?

3 – His birth date (ca 1817) is very near Markus's one (1816),and specially Elisabeth's one (20/10/1817). It could be 1818. But it doesn't appear for this year in the birth registers.

If I had to guess, I would think it likely that Markus (born 1816) is the same as Bernard (died 1825) . Markus is not in the Familiantenbuch, so probably died young.

Hopefully Fred's posting will answer the question as why Bernard is labelled as Marcus in the Geni Tree.

I expect you know of the gravestones listed here:
http://www.chewra.com/keshetnew/kweb/location_tombs.aspx?lid=173&am...

Though not helpful for this particular problem.

Hi Pierre (and Peter) –

I admit I'm at a disadvantage because I'm not that great at reading particularly difficult script in the Badatelna records. The name of the person who died December 28, 1825 is not remotely Bernard Kornfeld, as far as I can read.

To my knowledge, he is Lazar Beran, who appears in the list of Luže cemetery records as having died December 28, 1825 at age 8, Haus 24, i.e. born c. 1817. He died of "Stückschlagfluss," according to both the Badatelna entry and the Luže cemetery record – I haven't found a good translation of what that affliction would be (I believe it might be congestion and excretions of the lungs, but that's an educated extrapolation rather than an accurate translation.)

Of course if there's a Bernard Kornfeld out there, his father would not be named Beran.

The Luže directory also lists a Katrina Beran, Haus 24, who died December 9, 1812, Haus 24, of "Wassersucht," i.e. dropsy (accumulation of water.) She died at 3 years old, and thus I believe she is the "Kattel?" entered by Peter as born in 1809 (I can't read the birth record at all.)

Pierre – could you send me your regular e-mail? Then I can send you this Luže chart from which I derived the information. It was sent to me by one of the people photographing and cataloguing the Luže Cemetery (which I had visited in 2012, before I joined Geni) – I don't think it was the fellow who created www.chewra.com, although I had a lot of correspondence with him as well. I'll try and dig to see if I can remember which researcher put it together and sent it to me.

Best wishes,

Fred

Fred, you wrote "The name of the person who died December 28, 1825 is not remotely Bernard Kornfeld, as far as I can read."

But the name IS clearly "Bernard" in the death record:
http://www.badatelna.eu/fond/1073/reprodukce/?zaznamId=1510&rep...
The surname BERAN is slightly less obvious, but together with the house number 24 , makes me certain that it is BERAN

Ah.... I just see what you are saying. I think Pierre made a typo and wrote "The Bernard Kornfeld I'am speaking" instead of "The Lazar Beran I'am speaking"

Fred, Please can you copy me in to the email to Pierre so I am sure to which documents you are referring.

Peter

Thanks for the address of the gravestones lists web site I didn't know.

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