I did a lot of changes to this profile so mistakes could have happened. Also I really hope that I wasn't mixing two separate persons together. If you want the scans from Ancestry.com just write me a PM.
"Jacques" Jakab (Jakob) Gyorgy (Georg) Pal
I did a lot of changes to this profile so mistakes could have happened. Also I really hope that I wasn't mixing two separate persons together. If you want the scans from Ancestry.com just write me a PM.
"Jacques" Jakab (Jakob) Gyorgy (Georg) Pal
Hello
I must admit that Geni has dealt with some of the changes you have made in a controversial way. A profile for Jakob as you call him, has been on Geni for many years as Jakab Gyorgy Pal Pallok. He had that name when he was baptised, and at both his marriages, and his Geni profile and those of his family have a number of supporting links to verify his name always being presented in that format. Your changes of yesterday have resulted in Geni prioritizing a Germanic variation of his name, but we have no idea if it was frequently used because you have not supplied any additional supporting links to archival documents that substantiate such a major shift in emphasis. I do not doubt that he chose to use a variation of his name in whichever country he was living at any time, so suggest that the English as default setting offers the following compromise. Jakab (Jakob) Gyorgy (Georg) Pal (Paul) Pollak. Would you find that agreeable?
Regards Roy
Thank you for your input, I really appreciate that I am not the only one working on or thinking about this.
From what I understand Geni priorities the languages based on your settings if I understand it correctly (I see it with my close family profiles whenever I switch between languages English-German-Czech, funnily enough it also applies to titles). The way it is now is how I believe Geni wants you to use it and it also makes clear what language a particular name version is in… but it is also a non-optimal solution in many ways, especially if you have people who changed their names or used multiple names over the course of their lives.
So concerning the names, I don't feel particularly attached to the current solution and I am OK with your proposed solution:
• Should it be consistent with how it's generally done (I have also seen people use slashes but that break GEDCOM export to some degree)
• It does not break any of the Geni tools, like e.g. the automated finding of matches in databases and MyHeritage trees.
• It is extended with his other first name "Jaques" (see below for why).
I linked to all the public sources in the profile description section (and the non-public ones I named), e.g. his Jewish birth, his Catholic baptism, two of his marriages, … (By the way, some of his info can also be gained from the birth entry of his son.)
Now onto his name, according to his birth info (the Jewish one, not his baptism) he was actually born Jacques (see https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-8BKB-8PY?i=56) and according to a later note added there died bearing that name. Now what should take highest priority here, name at time of birth, or time of death, or most used name? Latter would make most sense since that is how people would find him but like you said we really don't know so a combination would make most sense.
So how about
Jaques Jakab (Jakob) György (Georg) Pál (Pollak)
?
I would leave out "Paul" as a surname because I have seen no evidence that it was ever used this way. And I would use the diacritics because I have seen them being used in some of the sources, e.g. the note about his death in his birth entry.
Best wishes
Philipp
By the way, I found a mention of his 2nd marriage in the note to his 3rd marriage, so I am pretty confident know that I didn't mix up two different people and Jaques AKA Jakob AKA Jakab truly must have lived an exciting life, switching spouses, countries, names, surnames,… By the way, note how nothing of this even touches the Nazi era.
Thanks for your input over what can be a difficult topic to resolve. I suggested the compromise mainly because Geni is a communal website and it is in the interests of all members to present the information in such a way that the Geni search engine will find a members' ancestors easily, as well as identifying trees with similarities.
With the above in mind, would you have any objection if I also made token adjustments to the names of Jakab's parents? [Vilmos - Wilhelm, Jenny - Eugenia]
Wishing you well Roy
Well especially if his parents have any connections to Hungary then sure, make those changes. BTW, his mother's name also varied in many ways, e.g. sometimes written as Johanna.
I see you have left out "Jacques" now? I guess since it's listed in the "also known as" section it's OK. I will add the diacritics to the Hungarian names though.
Though what I am most interested in now is what happened to his first spouse Sophia/Sofia/Zsófia (the mother of Robert)? She is not mentioned in his 2nd marriage (to Betty/Betti) but probably the German civil register didn't care whether he was a widower or divorced but she is also neither mentioned in his 3rd marriage (to Gabriella) though since the 3rd marriage was Catholic like #1 the church would have cared if she had been still alive. So either:
• Sophie died between his first and second marriage, i.e. between and 1893 and 1897.
or
• Sophie died between 1897 and 1911 (his 3rd marriage).
Sachdienliche Hinweise please to be posted here or written to me in a private message. It could be that Sophie is mentioned in the “Wer einmal war” book by Georg Gaugusch (according to www.genteam.at).
Best wishes
Philipp
Jacques now added (my oversight)
Also added from Hungarian records,
Link to Felix's marriage
Link to 2 marriages of Gabriella Ertl's sister Gizella
Link to the late registration of the death of Sophia as Zsofia (answers your question)
Texts to verify Jakab and Robert's name change
Sorry but can't help with the other questions you ask because I avoid accessing Austrian records
Roy