Gange-Hrólfr 'Rollo' Ragnvaldsson - Duke of Normandy

Started by Maureen Eves-Lavis on Wednesday, July 22, 2020
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7/22/2020 at 4:17 AM

Rollo was never referred ast Duke of Normandy. The 1st Duke of Normandy was his grandson, Richard I.
Rollo was known as Chieftain.

7/22/2020 at 4:54 AM

Gange-Hrólfr 'Rollo' Ragnvaldsson

Hi, Maureen Eves-Lavis, thank you so much, I will correct this in my tree now. I live near the city of Aalesund where we have a great statue of Rollo in the main town park. The stories about him are so exiting, one of my hopes for the future is for someone to eventually find his bones and dna.

7/22/2020 at 5:14 AM

Gange-Hrólfr 'Rollo' Ragnvaldsson is my 31st great grandfather according to geni.
I don

7/22/2020 at 5:17 AM

I don't agree that you change his name to Chieftain Hrolf Ragnvaldsson. Rather keep Gange-Hrólfr 'Rollo' Ragnvaldsson and write chieftain instead of Duke of Normandy.

7/22/2020 at 5:49 AM

Hi there good folks. I am pretty sure that this subject matter has crossed yours, and many others concerning the DNA of Rollo.If you can actually trace his descendants back 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Generations. There should be some remains of their DNA where they are actually laid in peace, the clothing they wore prior to their demise, and tools they used forf their trade(s).

This should be starters for those that are on a quest mission to find the truth of their blood lines.This would be a starter, and if the proof is there among these first 3 generations of blood relationships.Then you can proceed with the next 3 generations of claimed descendants with their DNA proof(s), and so on to the next 3 generations of descendants.

Now, if there is a DNA connections from Rollo to William the Conaqueror of England. If this is established through historical records with DNA proof. Then move on to the next 3 generations of descendants, and your DNA connections should be proof of you ancestor(s) connections. This would be the most logical theory for this DNA connection(s).

7/22/2020 at 7:09 AM

Maureen Eves-Lavis he was certainly never called the "Duke of Normandy" as Duke is an English title and Normandy did not exist at the time :) Whether he was ever known as a "Chieftain" is debatable, perhaps "chevetaine" but likely he had several titles depending on the situation and who was speaking/writing and what their understanding was of the situation.

Lise Nymark-Engelstad the profile of Rollo has 798 managers and over 10,000 descendants. Your use of the phrase "I will correct this in my tree now" is puzzling.

Knut Jonny Henden Bjørshol the title has been removed entirely which I think looks even better.

Kenneth Joseph Bagg Neder this method has been tried, they exhumed and DNA tested the bones of his great-grandson. The results showed that the bones were of an iron age Celt not a medieval Scandi so a bit of a bust :( The problem this far back is that it's a long way back in time and only getting further away with each passing day.

7/22/2020 at 12:02 PM

Hi, thank you all, I didn't question the Chieftain information, just accepted that Maureen Eves-Lavis knew better. To remove the title is probably the best choice.

Private User
7/22/2020 at 1:06 PM

My father's ydna is Celtic/Atlantean/West European, with a surname that in Old English (used as a Proper Noun) literally means "Dane" or "Norseman". So it doesn't surprise me at all that Rollo's boys were Celts. I'm sure there were Celtic Vikings living in that region of Europe.

7/22/2020 at 3:48 PM

Private User sorry I was not clearer, the DNA skelton of Rollo's "great grandson" turned out to belong to a man who lived approximately 500 years _before_ Rollo.

Everyone was very excited that DNA was going to solve this old argument and people often make comments about DNA solving all of genealogy's mysteries but it has huge barriers like this story of Rollo demonstrates. You can't put a positive spin on it by saying "oh he must have been a Celt, how wonderful"

Private User
7/22/2020 at 5:49 PM

"DNA tested the bones of his great-grandson. The results showed that the bones were of an iron age Celt"

1. the bones were of his great grandson
2. the bones were dna tested
3. the dna results were characterized as "iron age Celt"

Alex, my mtDNA haplogroup is 12,000 years old, but I'm far younger than that. :D

7/22/2020 at 6:10 PM

1. No they were not, the bones were from two persons living long before their ancestor Rollo.
2. No, the bones were Carbon-14 tested and found that they were a lot older than what was supposed, and therefor never DNA-tested.
3. No, there were never done any DNA test because the carbon-14 test showed the bones to be older than the livingperiod of Rollo.

Private User
7/22/2020 at 6:11 PM

Correction, they tested the bones fo someone they *thought ought to be* Rollo's great-grandson. He wasn't. Someone, at some unknown time in the past, had played "musical sarcophagi" with the ducal remains, and some unknown Iron Age Celtic chieftain had gotten moved into the sarcophagus.

What became of the original occupant (i.e. Rollo's great-grandson), no one knows.

For every success story like Richard III, there's a stumbling block like this one. Remember the megillah about the "Bourbon Y-DNA", and how many faces were red when it turned out that they *weren't* the "sacred type G" the Merovingianists had always believed, but a specific variant of type R?

We still don't know who did what with what there either, but the probability of "oopsies" in the original identifications is very high.

Private User
7/22/2020 at 6:52 PM

I can't argue over whose bones they were, but nevertheless the history of Normandy begins with the Celts:

"Initially populated by Celtic tribes in the West...Celts (also known as Belgae and Gauls) invaded Normandy in successive waves from the 4th to the 3rd century BC. When Julius Caesar invaded Gaul, there were nine different Celtic tribes living in Normandy."

It doesn't really matter whose bones they were, they were Celtic. My dad's ydna just coincidentally happens to be Celtic, and his surname just coincidentally happens to translate in Old English (proper noun usage) to "Dane" or "Nordman". And we just coincidentally happen to be descended from the Vikings. :D

Private User
7/22/2020 at 7:00 PM

The Celts and Norse interacted all over the place, and frequently intermarried to the point that you couldn't tell who was what without a scorecard.

Notoriously, Thorfinn 'The Black' Sigurdsson, II Jarl of Orkney was at least three-quarters Celt (Scottish mother, Irish paternal grandmother) but nevertheless identified and ruled as Norse. On the other hand, Somerled, “King of the Isles”, despite identifying and ruling as a Celt, was as straight-male-line Norse as his name (Somerled, "summer traveler" = Viking) implies.

Private User
7/22/2020 at 7:03 PM

The bottom line, all the same, is that we still don't have clue one what Rollo's genotype was - *nor* that of his most famous descendant (William the Conqueror). It is a source of great frustration to genetic genealogists.

7/22/2020 at 7:04 PM

But Private User if your dad's ydna happened to be Celtic, he can't be a viking decendant. Celts and Vikings had different origins, atleast on the ydna side.

What linguistic proof do you have of the lastname Denman beig the eqivalent of Daneman?

7/22/2020 at 10:49 PM

Private User i am sorry that you cannot follow the simple logic of my conversation.

Someone who died 500 years before Rollo was born cannot be his grandson. So the DNA results of that skeleton cannot inform us in anyway about Rollo's origins.

So the skeleton being a Celt does not make Rollo a Celt, it makes the DNA test to determine Rollo's origins a failure that was doomed before it began.

I hope that this closes the circle back to the original point i was trying to make, ie. DNA testing is not some miracle solution to answering every genealogical mystery.

7/25/2020 at 9:20 PM

If the Peerages and ancient rolls and different such as Annals , four Masters, etc etc...the buck should stop there... If you want to do DNA ..All you need is the first few generations on a 111 marker test...My R1b1a is Scot Irish and my L165/S68 is viking...And the ancient kings of Ireland are my grand fathers....why be so distraught ??Thanks


7/27/2020 at 5:22 PM

Geni gives me this kind of line.
Gange-Hrólfr 'Rollo' Ragnvaldsson is your 33rd great grandfather.
→ Ari-Pekka Allén
your father → Sirpa Marja Salonen
his mother → Niilo Salonen
her father → Aksel David Johansson Salonen (Vanhamylly)
his father → Agneta Takko
his mother → Lena Stina Fredriksdotter Heikkilä
her mother → Fredrik Johansson Mallenius
her father → Johan Eliasson Mallenius (Erichsson)
his father → Hedvig Uggelberg
his mother → Anna Katarina Tragman
her mother → Margareta Helena Munck af Fulkila
her mother → Anders Munck af Fulkila
her father → Margareta Eriksdotter Ljuster
his mother → Karin Boije af Gennäs
her mother → Anna Göransdotter Gyllenmåne till Högsjögård
her mother → Metta Tönnesdotter Tott
her mother → Tönne Eriksson Thott, till Benhammar
her father → Erik Åkesson Tott, till Bavelse
his father → Märta Bengtsdotter (Vinstorp)
his mother → Kristina Staffansdotter (Ulv)
her mother → Staffan Ulfsson (Ulv)
her father → Ulf Filipsson (Ulv)
his father → Filip Ulfsson (Ulv)
his father → Ulf Karlsson (Ulv)
his father → Karl Karlsson (Ulv)
his father → Charles the Deaf, Earl of Sweden (Folkunga)
his father → Earl Bengt Folkesson Folkesson Snivel (Snivil)
his father → Princess Ingegerd of Denmark
his mother → Adela of Flanders
her mother → Robert I, Count of Flanders
her father → Adela of France, countess of Flanders
his mother → Robert II Capet, "the Pious" king of the Franks
her father → Adélaïde d'Aquitaine, reine des Francs
his mother → Adèle of Normandy
her mother → Gange-Hrólfr 'Rollo' Ragnvaldsson
her father

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