Charles van Hille - Parents any parents

Plus his daughter married to her own brother.
What is going in here ?

Who is responsible for this farce ?

There is no such thing that a primary source must be used, in the case of deep descent research we often have to rely on the published work of others. My contribution was from an article:

Uys Rootenberg, S Francesco. 2013. The Van Hille descent of the Swanepoel family. Familia 50 (4) pp 215-224. The article appears to be based on a book, Van Hille, Willy. Histoire de la familie Van Hille, Bruges, 1954. There is also a supplement by one Phillipe van Hille. Even if I can get hold of a copy from a second-hand online bookshop, I don’t understand French.

Who is going to pay the travel and subsistence cost of a trip to Belgium to find primary sources in archives? In the distant future – post Covid-19. Once there, it can take anything from an hour to a lifetime. The main Swanepoel researcher did find the progenitor’s baptism record, but it was in Latin with smeared ink. Obstacles, obstacles.

I seldom merge profiles, as it usually leads to trouble. In this case I seem to have done it, to my detriment, as in what other way did I become a profile manager? What I usually do when there is too much conflict or doubt, , is to cross reference profiles and make notes.

I do not confirm MyHeritage smartmatches as the amateur genealogists there are just as clueless as on Geni. I was warned not to trust the co-operative tree systems. Wikitree can also be included and what else. I do my best and include disclaimers on my own work everywhere.

I appreciate your high standards and 5 year old mothers and incestuous marriages are not acceptable, but even the non-genealogist stumbling on a profile can see it is not true. I am not going to lose sleep over what is simply a hobby. Can a curator kindly remove me as co-manager?

According to Uys Rootenberg his parents were Eloy Van Hille x Cornelie Berrels. He cites another Familia article which I will try to locate tomorrow on the CD.

A reliable dource can be a respected recognized genealogy compilations like a Stammtafel of a family as well
I worked with others on von Bibra family here on GENI and then discovered the more recent genealogical tables were more complete and more correct than older ones.
The von Ebersberg gen. Weyers table most want to use ends 1748 so some argue rhe family just ended as well but not true.
Stating obvious genealogy research becomes procrastination.
All that said , Abraham Swanepoel did write the whole story with extra parents on the profile stating you will leave both sets there. Thank you fir all that input .
Adding to the confusion though but neccessary.
To run away now ?
These profiles should be corrected and sorted out properly .
Reasons and arguments why one set od parents is seen as more correct can be in overview .
The brother abd sister marriages removed it is embarrassing.

Hierdie profiel se data is in konflik met data uit die volgende uitvoerig nagevorste artikels:

Vertè Roland, Tavernier Geert, Swanepoel Adriaan. 2012. Pieter Swanepoel van Wesvlaandere, en sy voorouers. Familia 49(3) pp137-153

Rootenberg, S Francesco Uys. 2013. The Van Hille descent of the Swanepoel family. Familia 50(4) pp 215-224

Ek het een duplikaatprofiel met feitlik geen inligting op, geintegreer met die profiel deur my geskep, Charles van Hille. Rootenberg se artikel stel die Swanepoels in staat om hulle voorsate via die Van Hilles terug te voer tot c1350. Ek het profiele opgestel vanaf Eloy van Hille x Cornelie Berrels (aangegee as die ouers van Charles Van Hille), tot by Willem van den Hille x PN NN in 1350.

Ongelukkig beteken dit dat Maria Coepon op Geni gelyktydig 2 maal met dieselfde man getroud is :-). Daar sal uitsluitsel moet kom oor wie werklik die ouers van Charles Van Hille is of anders moet die 2 profiele maar naasmekaar bestaan.

David Abraham Swanepoel, 2020-01-17

Do not think this was from a MERGE ?

According to Abraham Swanepoel :

There is no such thing that a primary source must be used, in the case of deep descent research we often have to rely on the published work of others. My contribution was from an article:

Uys Rootenberg, S Francesco. 2013. The Van Hille descent of the Swanepoel family. Familia 50 (4) pp 215-224. The article appears to be based on a book, Van Hille, Willy. Histoire de la familie Van Hille, Bruges, 1954. There is also a supplement by one Phillipe van Hille. Even if I can get hold of a copy from a second-hand online bookshop, I don’t understand French.

Who is going to pay the travel and subsistence cost of a trip to Belgium to find primary sources in archives? In the distant future – post Covid-19. Once there, it can take anything from an hour to a lifetime. The main Swanepoel researcher did find the progenitor’s baptism record, but it was in Latin with smeared ink. Obstacles, obstacles.

I seldom merge profiles, as it usually leads to trouble. In this case I seem to have done it, to my detriment, as in what other way did I become a profile manager? What I usually do when there is too much conflict or doubt, , is to cross reference profiles and make notes.

I do not confirm MyHeritage smartmatches as the amateur genealogists there are just as clueless as on Geni. I was warned not to trust the co-operative tree systems. Wikitree can also be included and what else. I do my best and include disclaimers on my own work everywhere.

I appreciate your high standards and 5 year old mothers and incestuous marriages are not acceptable, but even the non-genealogist stumbling on a profile can see it is not true. I am not going to lose sleep over what is simply a hobby. Can a curator kindly remove me as co-manager?

Maria Verhille

Joris Charlesz Herebout

Charles van Hille MP
Gender: Male
Birth: 08 September 1606
Vladslo, Diksmuide, West Flanders, Flanders, Belgium
Death: 16 July 1628 (21)
Beerst, West Flanders, Belgium
Immediate Family:

Son of Pierre Antoine Van Hille; Eloy van Hille; Barbe Van Hille and Cornelie van Hille
Husband of Maria Coepon
Father of Maria Herebout; Joris Herebout; Fransynken van Hille and Jacques van Hille
Brother of Joris Van Hille
Guardians: Cornelis van Hille, Arnout Bouchillioen
Added by: Judith Susanna Hendrika Meyer, Judi - i12j2 on 25 February 2014
Managed by: Judith Susanna Hendrika Meyer (Marais), Judi - i12j2, David Abraham Swanepoel, Jacobus Janse van Rensburg and Riaan David De Lange
Curated by: Judith Susanna Hendrika Meyer, Judi - i12j2

OK, I hope the following helps. The article that Uys Rootenberg cites is:
Vertè Roland, Tavernier Geert, Swanepoel Adriaan. 2012. Pieter Swanepoel van Wesvlaandere, en sy voorouers. Familia 49(3) pp137-153

Vertè and Tavernier apparently had physical access to the archives. Since their e-mail addresses have the extension .be they must be Belgian. Adriaan Swanepoel must have written the article with their data, as it is in Afrikaans, not Flemish. Adriaan was like myself a librarian whom which I had official contact from time to time. Also the compiler of the Swanepoel family register, a man with high standards. I therefore believe the article is authoritive enough, though a secondary source.

The following is said:

Korrekte inligting oor die eggenote van Charles Van Hille (die skoonvader van Jan Swanepoel) is vervat in die boedelbeskrywing (staat van goed) van Marie Capoen wat in 1628 in Beerst oorlede is [voetnota 21].

Voetnota 21 reads as follows:

Rijksarchief Brugge, Staten van Goed van het Brugse Vrije. Reeks 3, nr 2172

Going to the website of the Rijksarchief te Brugge and looking for document no 2172, the following is returned:

Aanvraaginstructie [ archiefdienst - inventaris - archiefbestanddeel ]:
Rijksarchief te Brugge - TBO 112 -
Brugse Vrije. Staten van Goed. Derde Reeks
Archiefbeschrijving
De gedetailleerde archiefbeschrijving voor dit document is nog niet beschikbaar. Gelieve de inventaris te raadplegen in de leeszaal van het Rijksarchief.

Like I said. It will need some-one travelling there. Even if there is a way to order a scan of it, I will not bear the cost. I originally decided not to delve much further than the progs’ parents and I still have little interest in my ancestors in Europe, but the availability of these 2 articles lured me to put them on Geni.

It is now for the other profile managers of Charles van Hille (the original one into which I merged) to prove that Pierre Antoine Van Hille x Barbe Van Hille are actually his parents. I will not tamper with these profiles, I don’t think the system will allow me anyway. If Judi Meyer (a curator) does not see this discussion, I have her e-mail address somewhere, I will ask her to sort it out.

Thank you Abraham .
So appears to relate more to Charles van Hille and corrrect spouse Marie Capoen than his actual parents .
These my ancestors 4 different routes .
The other parents even less sources as proof , think they should be the first to go .
Though GENI works on proven not to disprove relatives .
Suppose then NO parents perhaps the solution until documents can prove parents.
If only we had Familietafel like I have for Dohne , Gmund , von Bibra , von Ebersberg etc that at least show the ancestors as some reference .
My Lothicius / Lotz Stamtafel back to 1352 and have found baptism or marriage documents to prove the Stamtafel .
Judi not on GENI since 20 April .

I agree. Since I have indicated that competent genealogists with possible physical access to the estate file of Marie Capoen mentioned Eloy van Hille x Cornelie Berrels as the parents of Charles van Hille, I think Pierre Antoine Van Hille x Barbe Van Hille should be removed. The problem should be stated in a note, in order for the other profile managers to oppose when they come online again.

Indicating no parents will mean all the profiles I created from Charles back to Willem van den Hille x PN NN c. 1350, will have to be removed as well. I spent far too much time making electronic cuttings from Uys Rootenberg to lose all that. And after all, everybody does have parents, even if there is doubt or their names unknown.

Most of the information seem to come from records of orphans and guardianship, sometimes a guardian himself died before seeing the children through to adulthood. So there are too many names that can create confusion.

Once rectified, other problems often go away. If not, they can be addressed hereafter. If Judi is not available, Sharon Doubell is also a curator and commented on the “incest” problem, maybe she can be asked to help?

Have asked Sharon as well .
Judi back from a break .
She will look see tomorrow .
Your work also my ancestors so would be great to keep them .