Richard (Creech) and the story of Capt. Henry surviving Indian attack

Started by James Michael Creech on Saturday, July 10, 2021
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7/10/2021 at 5:09 PM

The Creech Family History by James M. Creech on the web contains the story of Richard and Frances(?) Creech. It was published in 1980 I believe. The piece is patched together many times repeating the same thing apparently from different sources. It is more a research guide then a story. Wish he had revealed more of his sources for the information on Richard and Frances (?). Anyway the first time he mentions the massacre he says Nicholas and Henry were away from the house at the time, not saying where. A little further in the article he repeats the massacre story in regards to Henry and says the boys survived because they were away from the house working in the fields. But no source is given. All dates seem to be based on a Richard Crouch being on a census taken in 1623 after the 1622 massacre of Jamestown that was taken to find out who was alive and who was dead. Yet I found a list of the survivors of survivors that list Richard Crouch has born in 1586 (not 1600 as Richard Crich (or Critch) is supposed. It lists him as living in the "Maine" section of Virginia the same as the Richard Creech in the Creech family web article but says he is a carpenter, from Howton (Houghton), Bedfordshire, England. There is no other people on the list with names similar to Richard (Crich (Critch, Creech, etc.) In George Cabell Greer's book, free on Google Books, "Early Virginia Immigrants" he lists the recorded immigrants to Virginia between 1623 and 1666. Richard Crich age 27 arrived in 1635. There are no other names similar to Creech on the list except for Crouch, Crough, and Coutch, all of which arrived between 1635 & 1655. There is only one Richard among them. While none of the records are probably flawless we are left with only Richard Crich (or Critch) arriving in Virginia in 1635. One other note of interest. Nowhere have I found documentation that Richard Crich was a guard at Jamestown. The closest I saw was a remark about Richard Crich obtaining land near Jamestown and that it would be a clue that he might have been a guard as this was often the case. I suspect this statement is the source of guard profile. I am thoroughly interested in the mysteries surrounding the early Creeches. Do we have an English or Scottish ancestry. What roll did we play in the founding of this great nation. As a footnote........James Milton Creech says in his History that from all his research the Creeches were never slaveholders and he wrote that in 1980 before the current concerns.. I look forward to hearing from others who can shed light on our history.

7/11/2021 at 3:52 AM

Anne Brannen - more Creech story.

7/11/2021 at 3:54 AM

I can’t offer any more insight except to say the analysis is logical.

8/24/2021 at 9:46 PM

Genealogy is a fascinating puzzle. Just found a Lt. Richard Crouch. Not the Richard Crouch on the 1623 census of the living and the dead. Apparently he was part of a construction project by the British Navy in Jamestown. Had been in a battle with the Dutch Fleet in the Caribbean prior to coming to Jamestown. I don't believe he had any bearing on the Creech family as he died of an illness along with others in 1619. In 1622 the council in Jamestown approved the sale of his land by his sister, Mary Tue (probably living in England) who inherited it. But shows history can be tricky. More than one person with a name. Solved another problem that plagued me. If Nicholas Creech was born in the 1630s. How could he have been reported to be an adult seen in 1640. Checking immigration records I found a Nicholas Crouch transported to Virginia in 1637. Thus maybe another Nicholas or maybe there was no brother to Henry and J. M. Creech was confused. Of course this could be Nicholas and Henry coming back to Virginia after being raised in England by uncle John Bell. If that indeed did happen. John Bell immigrated to Mass. in 1638. But if that was the case that would make the Richard Crouch, carpenter, from Howton, England on the 1623 census the likely father. As he had no wife or children in 1623 he would have had to married later. Another question of concern is Henry is called Captain on the John Bell (a different John) will in England in 1656. According to many genealogies Richard Crich/Critch that landed in 1635 got married after his arrival and Henry was born about 1637/1638. But he would only be about 19 years old in 1656. I don't know where a lot of these genealogies get their information. J.M. says Henry was the captain of a ship called "Nancy" with no source given. Appears to be (if it did exist) a local transport for the colonists. But I suppose Henry could have been a militia captain instead. Either way I think a 1637 birth would make him too young. Must have been born before Richard Crich came over. I see no problem with that. But wonder how old one would have to be to become a captain. Maybe not so old for a ferry. One last thought. I am pretty certain Richard was not a Bethune of Creich. If Scottish probably a farmer or such on Creich lands. But I am curious why no one has proposed that Richard's name in Scotland was Crichton. There seems to be several of them around Edinburgh He could have dropped the ton to Anglicize the name or perhaps just shorten it. I am a novice, so just wondering. Great puzzle! Just hope I can find all the pieces..

8/27/2021 at 5:36 PM

I like that you’re playing with scenarios of his life. Don’t forget that father in law & children offer many clues.

8/27/2021 at 8:48 PM

Welcome brainstorming by anyone else out there. Just try to not violate any of the few real facts we do have record of. Maybe someday we will stumble across a missing piece that completes the puzzle. Just who were the Creeches before 1656?

8/31/2021 at 5:00 PM

It appears the Robert Bell will that James Milton Creech printed in his History of the Creech Family has been doctored. Perhaps by some one else before he saw it. I cannot judge. The original will is printed in The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography, Vol. XI - no. 2, October 1903. In it Robert Bell does mention his Brother John Bell and grandson John Bell Jr.. But it not say "to my grandson Robert Beale son of my granddaughter Elizabeth and husband Robert Beale the elder." Rather it says "to godson Robert Beale, son of friend Robert Beale, dyer. " Bell leaves money to Robert Beale's wife also but does not give her first name. In regards to the mourning rings Bell says "To the following friends a ring" . Creech says "To other kinsmen:" In the list of friends in the original will, Capt. Henry Creech, Mr. Robert Beale, and a Mr. Daniel Belt are included It is concerning that Mr. Creech copy of the will is altered. This does show that Mr. Beale and the Bells are not the same family. But rather friends. What else it tells us. is yet to be determined.

8/31/2021 at 5:46 PM

Great detective work.

9/3/2021 at 4:37 PM

Final note about Robert Bell will. Notice The J.M. Creech version has added regarding Robert Beale the younger "son of my granddaughter Elizabeth and husband" before the Robert Beale Elder, dyer. Everything I have seen, including this will, says Robert Bell had no children, and thus could not have had a granddaughter Elizabeth. Also J.M. Creech's copy of the will has "(now in America)" after Henry Creech's name. The original just has ....Mr. Thomas Rose, Captain Henry Creech, Mr. Robert West, Mr, Francis Carpenter, etc.. Mr. Creech's copy has been obviously doctored by someone to give changed the narrative. J.M. Creech's "The Creech Family History" is the primary source of the early Creech story. I sincerely hope and trust that he only got ahold of a bad copy of the will. But we will have to be careful that there are no more errant sources. We are in deep debt to Mr. Creech and appreciate his 20 years of diligent work in compiling his family history.

9/4/2021 at 5:23 PM

Regarding Captain Henry Creech. Searched for another Henry. Found a Captain Henry Creyke born 1637 (I have seen 1636 also) died 1684. Was captain of a merchantman. Could not be the Captain Henry Creech in Robert Beale's will as he would have been only 19 in 1656. Could not be the Henry Creech of our ancestry as he died in 1684. I do suspect he has been confused by many genealogist as I see timelines with Henry Creech born in Va. in 1637, without documentation. My source is The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography, Vol. 29, No. 3 (July, 1921) pg. 378. I have also seen that this Capt. Henry Creech was born in England. Obviously his father had not emigrated Virginia in 1635.

Henry Creech in Robert Beale's will as he would have only been 19 in 1656.

10/11/2021 at 8:49 PM

Recently read that documentation only exists for about 80% of immigrants to colonial Virginia. Since the colonies were part of the British Empire people could freely travel back and forth. Also records from some minor ports have never been made publicly available. This leaves us with a 20% chance that there are no records for Henry or his parents immigration to Virginia. Perhaps J M Creech had something to base his story on that we don't. How dependable I don't know. The Robert Bell will iin his paper is flawed. I have found his History referred to as early as 1972. Richard Crouch does not match the Scottish story. But perhaps there is another William Carter who was a sea captain of a ship called Journeyman that sailed from a minor port. Perhaps a Richard Creech came on that ship. Perhaps indentured papers are not available or Richard paid his own way or an employer such as the Skinners Company or the Virginia Company. He was not there during the 1623 census but that is all we can say for sure. Maybe Richard Crich the 1635 immigrant is Henry's father. Maybe Richard is an Englishman surnamed Crouch whose family followed him after 1623. Possibilities are nearly endless. I am considering getting a DNA test. Do you have any idea which if any could help pinpoint where Henry's father came from?

10/11/2021 at 9:38 PM

I’m a family tree DNA fan. They have surname projects & administrators suggest what level of Y DNA is appropriate (depends on your haplotype & how rare, etc). I don’t see one for Creech / Creach though. If you’re looking for ethnicity estimates, perhaps 23andMe is better? AncestryDNA doesn’t have Y DNA testing I don’t think, and since you’re a male Creech - definitely do Y DNA test. I’m not sure they can refine English vs Scots too well but you never know.

10/11/2021 at 9:39 PM

PS documentation for 80% to Virginia? Really? I didn’t think it was that high. For example, my Howton apparently stowed away (yeah, sure ….).

10/12/2021 at 4:52 PM

Actually I read 70 to 80% I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. Read the Story of Col. Wilhelm Christman sometime. My ancestor Jacob Chrisman was supposedly one of his sons. The stories get wilder the more I study genealogy. Anyway I am thinking about Living DNA. It is a company based in the UK. Supposedly they can break down your DNA to 21 regions of the British Islands and Ireland. Of course the number of DNAs in there base will affect accuracy. Maybe I could at least establish whether the family came from Scotland or England. Do you know anything about them?

10/12/2021 at 6:06 PM

Hopefully you got a laugh out of Wilhelm's story. Seems everyone has a story. Like Richard Creech being a long last son of the Bethunes of Creich. 99% of people were dirt farmers or basic craftsman. Commoners. But everybody would love to find royalty or fame in their family ancestry. I was thrilled to find the Bethunes on the first family tree I was given. But I can't just accept Legends without at least some evidence of fact. But facts seem hard to find, if not impossible. Living DNA?

10/12/2021 at 8:09 PM

I am almost definitely from sustenance farmers on all my Virginians! Yay? There’s a wife though with a prestige name, so we get there.

Bethune of Creich … yes, almost certainly not. My Ross is definitely not Ross of Balgowan.

10/12/2021 at 8:15 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_DNA

Plus: partnership with FindMyPast

Minus: some controversy about the founders

I would make sure you can export the DNA result and upload to the Gedmatch utility.

https://www.gedmatch.com/

10/12/2021 at 8:16 PM

Looks like it does. That way you can compare with people you match with and generate additional reports.

10/13/2021 at 4:38 PM

Just watched you tube video on Living DNA pro and cons. Base comparison group to small to be effective at this time. Maybe better in future. Not sure anyone else can distinguish between English and Scottish. So guess I will have to wait. Thanks Erica.

10/13/2021 at 9:08 PM

Just read DNA is only helpful approximately 6 or 7 generations. Richard would be 11. Henry would be 10.. Not sure it would be useful in this matter. Think I must have read some exaggerated hype in the past

10/14/2021 at 1:19 PM

Thanks for advice. Know you are staying busy. But am curious whether you were able to jump acros Atlantic without a boat ⛵. In your family genealogy? Have been searching Scotland and England. Only thing found is Captain Henry Creech in Robert Bell's will. Creech is unusual name. Zero in 1638 London census. Only 2 adult males in 1693 or (4) London census. Not even another name close. Except Crouch,. In other Scottish or English records no Richards or Henrys with similar name. I know you have been doing this awhile. So wondering if this usual? I found in a book, Sir Robert Bell and His Virginia Descendants, 1993, a reference to Francis Creech. I mentioned the story of Henry and Nicholas going to England to live with uncle after parents killed. The authors have done a lot of research and have a reference to James Milton Creech's family history (1972 edition,. I don't think he ever published anything). So could be suspect on source. But anyway they have a genealogy leading to Francis Creech. Here goes....Robert Bell (he admits it is questionable whether this is Sir Robert Bell and most scholars believe it is a different Robert Bell,. I would guess different a different Robert Bell but They think it is Sir Bell) and Elizabeth (Darnel) Anderson were married (her 2nd marriage). They had 4 chidren. One was Mary Elizabeth Bell (born about 1558 died) who married a Scot named Daniel Belt, a Greengrocer, A Worshipful Company, a Great Twelve. They had a daughter named Mary who married Robert Beale, a Dyer, a Worshipful Company, a Great Twelve. Robert Beale was friend of Robert Bell, a Skinner, a Worshipful Company, Great Twelve. This is the Bell we have the 1656 will for Robert and Mary (Belt) are then the parents of Frances Beale who married a Scot, Richard Creech. Frances's brother Robert Jr. Us the godson to Robert Bell of the will. Supposedly Frances had 2 brothers, Robert Jr. and John. Robert had explored Virginia before 1620 for the company and John who migrated to Massachusetts in 1638. Supposedly one of the two raised Henry and Nicholas. The authors put a lot of work into this detailed book. It is an interesting read. But didn't reveal many sources. I have tried to proof the Francis genealogy with my limited capabilities. No luck. The authors appear to admit it when something said is unproven. Outside of which Robert Bell was married to Elizabeth Darnel Anderson the genealogy is set forth frankly. I have not seen this elsewhere. I suppose the thesis was disproven years ago. But I am new and this is my only link across the Atlantic. Have seen other Creech legends and expect this is one too. Just wanted your comment before I throw it in the Creech Myths folder. Thanks

10/14/2021 at 1:34 PM

Wish this page had editing capability. Doing on phone I want to make clear Robert Beale Sr is friend of Robert Bell the Skinner of 1656 will. Robert Beale Sr. is father of Robert Beale Jr.. Robert Beale Jr. Is supposedly brother of Frances. The authors put a lot of work into this. I am trying to keep up.

10/15/2021 at 9:53 AM

Your book source sounds well done but unproven, I wouldn’t toss. And if I were a male Creech, I would get a Y DNA test.

How did I cross Atlantic? Howton’s haven’t, only theories, so from other lines, via collaborating. Geni helped a lot.

10/15/2021 at 11:31 AM

So you think a Y DNA would go far enough back❓. Will gladly get it if it will help in solving Creech mystery.🤔

10/15/2021 at 12:05 PM

Y DNA goes back forever, males only, and will be useful for years. Finding matches depends on who else tests.

10/15/2021 at 4:09 PM

Great! Will get it done!

10/26/2021 at 12:01 PM

My apologies to anyone reading this thread. I just reread it. I have been all over the place and repeated things often. I have not intended this as a final and complete documented conclusion to the Creech Family beginning. Far from that! Rather I have read so many unproven and contradictory stories as to the 1600s Creech's that my inner self demands to dig for answers. I have tried to raise as many diverse interpretations of the facts as possible. Call it thinking aloud, I call it thinking publically. Hoping someone else with a common concern might perhaps have a fact or thought I have missed. I recently found on a Fife County Facebook page a post from a few years ago. In it the author described the puzzling stories written by James Milton Creech and later by Roy Creech. The post was like a plea for help in resolving the American Creech foundation story. There still was not a single comment or response posted in reply after all these years. I tried to post a few thoughts but have to admit my conclusions are evolving. I had perhaps put too much faith in the ship transport records to colonial Virginia. Now that I know they are incomplete I am humbled.... but since that is true the facts are even harder to establish. The only source of facts I can now search is my DNA. Which I am beginning. If you too are puzzled and have facts or thoughts to share join in. For now I will wait for DNA.

10/26/2021 at 12:48 PM

I found your goals and purpose for discussion clear, James, and appreciate the thoughts.

11/19/2021 at 3:59 PM

Stumbled across this (from Patent Book 7, pg. 151, Cavaliers and Pioneers, Vol.. 2, Nell Marion Nugent, pg. 235) " Henry Hollowell patented 118 acres in Lower Norfolk Co.; on the north side of the Western Branch of Elizabeth River, 20 April 1682, at head of his father's land and adjacent Murraie"s line, along Slawter's line for the transportation of 3 persons: Henry Creech, his wife, and Stephen Coleman." While land for headrights were not necessarily claimed immediately after the arrival of the individuals whose passage was paid for, it would be probable that Henry had arrived not too long before 1682. And that he had brought a wife with him. Thus he is an adult. Possible options: 1. After the death of his parents Henry was sent to England to be raised by his uncle and immigrated back to Virginia not too long before 1682 with his wife, 2. Since there is no documentation that Richard Creech from Scotland ever existed. It is possible that this is the true record of how Henry Creech and his wife first came to America. Where from (before boarding a ship in Great Britain) and who were their parents being a mystery. 3. A third possibility is this is a 2nd Henry Creech who migrated to Virginia in the 1600s. But then the question arises of how do we know which Henry Creech we are dealing with in all subsequent records. I know of no documents before this that mention the name Henry Creech. P.S. I mailed my DNA test a week ago. Should get results within 6-8 weeks.

11/21/2021 at 9:04 PM

April 20, 1682 is important in our understanding of Henry Creech. First was Henry Holloway patenting 118 acres in Lower Norfolk County for having paid passage for Henry Creech and wife, plus Stephen Coleman. But also on the same day April 20, 1682 in "Lower Norfolk County, Va. The Land Office Patents-Henry Creech grantee-Description: 200 acres according to the most ancient and lawful bounds thereof, which John Townes died seized of and was found to be escheat." There is no way to know how long Henry and wife had been in Virginia. But we know that their passage was paid for. Possibly by Holloway or perhaps by someone he bought the headrights from. Concerning the land grant Henry received, there is no mention of being in return for headrights Henry had obtained for others. Thus it was not for having paid for some else's passage. I do not see any payment attached to the grant. It is possible that the grant was given to Henry for some service he had given the Colony. Similar grants were given to individuals who had aided the Colony during Bacon's Rebellion. How all of this plays out in the Creech story as a whole I don't know. Perhaps if anyone else is studying the Creech story this will be a piece in your puzzle.

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