Samuel Abraham Ballin - Discussion of parents of Samuel Ballin d. 1622

Started by Randy Schoenberg on Friday, September 3, 2021
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From the About section of his profile:

On http://www.loebtree.com/rashi.html and Die Familia Ballin, Samual Abraham is the son Eliezer Sussman ben Elia Ballin who is the son of Elia ben Moshe

Based on the work of Pascal Faustini, a better genealogy is Samuel Abraham & Eliezer Sussman were sons of Elia (c1535-1615+/- 5) son of Eliezer (c1500-1551) son of Elias (c1455-c1510) son of Moshe. He feels that a link to earlier Ballin generations is based on conjecture.

Dear Randy,

This is such an intriguing and challenging issue. I'm going to paraphrase what I wrote back to Azriel because I don't know whether that message got onto the Discussion page or not. When I wrote to him, I didn't know that there was any doubt that (Samuel) Abraham's father was named Sussman. Abraham is repeatedly called "Abraham Sussman" throughout the Gruene Buch, including one place where he calls himself that. I do realize that the Sussman reference doesn't absolutely have to be a straight patronymic, but it is certainly the most likely, especially since, in at least two instances, he is called Abraham Sussmans. But, in any case, here is what I wrote to Azriel –

I told him I looked at Abraham Ballin's Geni page as it appears now, but that the identity of Abraham's father is not something I feel qualified to address. However, I have quite a few details on Abraham which might shed some light on whether he was the son of a man who died back in 1551 or the son of a man who died at what needs to have been a relatively old age in 1602 (since Abraham was not at all young when he died in 1622). I do not know if the Elieser Susman who died in 1602 is a namesake of the one who died in 1551, but, if so, he is not dying as an old man.
In any case, the clips I have (Randy, I assume I am right that there was no way to attach them to the Geni message) are almost all from secondary sources, since the originals do not exist or are not available, but I can send them so that you can decide. We were just so happy to be able to identify Abraham's wives that we put the identity of his father on the proverbial back burner for awhile.

As you know, this is the Susman who died in 1602: Datenbank: Jüdische Grabsteinepigraphik (steinheim-institut.de) The Susman who died in 1551 does not seem to be in Epidat, but this may be a son of his, Moshe: Datenbank: Jüdische Grabsteinepigraphik (steinheim-institut.de) , who is significant, because this Moshe is old when he dies in 1562, so his father was very old when he died in 1551. Or they might not be father and son at all, but it would be worth looking into.

This is a list of what the clips are (and, Randy, I'm attaching some of them at the end of this e-mail):
1) Abraham's 1622 death as shown in the Gruene Buch, page 91b: haparnas Abraham Ballin 24 Nisan 1622
2) Abraham's death as shown in Kobets al Yad, page 10: Shmuel Abraham bn Elieser Ballin, "Parnas Abraham Bat"
3-5) Abraham's household in the 1610 Worms house list as transcribed by Berthold Rosenthal (2 versions) and in the 1619 house list.
6) Sussman's 1602 death entry on page 64 of the Gruene Buch
7) Sussman's probable entry in Kobets al Yad, page 8: r' Israel Eliezer bn mhr"r Elia
8) Abraham's listings in the annual Mitzvot lists in the Gruene Buch. He appears in these lists frequently, beginning in 1565 (and that is the first year recorded in the Gruene Buch, so his participation may go back even further). The Susman who dies in 1602, however, does not appear in the Mitzvot lists until 1583. The two most likely explanations for this would be either that this Susman had lived elsewhere for quite a while or that this Susman was younger than Abraham. These are all just tantalizing bits of data which don't hold up except as part of an assembled puzzle. But if you need more pieces, just let me know and I'll look further.

I'll close here and add the clips at the end.

All the best
Nancy

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