Johann Jakob János DEUTSCH - Jakob Deutsch brothers?

Is it just me, or do others also find that putting the same person's death notice onto their spouse, siblings, children and children's spouses (just because they are mentioned) is a misleading practice?

I find it helpful to tag the family mentioned in the obit since many times that's the only document we have that proves their exact relationship as those relationships are clearly mentioned in the obit. It is particularly helpful in these families with common names (Deutsch).
It seems that Geni automatically also promotes it as their profile photo if there's no other photo of them. I see no real harm in it, it's more interesting than a blank profile photo and it helps cement the family relationships. Sure if there's a photo of that person or a more relevant document it can be replaced :)

I checked the branch again and was able to supplement it a bit. I have no proof that the 2 Jacobs are brothers. The Jacob Deutsch married to Roza Deutsch is on the death document of Franz Deutsch Janos (Deutsch Roza Janosne)
I agree with Roy that posting an obituary to anyone who insists on it is not desirable. As a visitor, you get confused. you can also link to the source.

Thanks, I saw that Janos Deutsch married to Wolf Roza is mentioned in the obit right after Roy made that comment :) It actually reminded me to check it :) lol. That's on the obit for Deutsch Roza.
I however can't find a Franz Deutsch Janos or his wife, can you please link to them or to the obit?

AS to linking to the obit as a source it sounds like an idea but it will be a tedious undertaking to do on all involved. Would the source be an album photo or how do you envision doing it?

The obituary of Franz Ferencz Deutsch contains the names of his parents.His father had already died, his mother is listed as the widow of Janos Deutsch.
Ferencz / Ferenc Deutsch

For persons who are on the obituary of Ferenc Franz Deutsch I would place the link of his profile, at least if you have no other source confirming their existence, such as birth certificates, marriage certificates....
I'll also see if I can find more.

There appear to be conflicting ideas about how frequently the same death notice should reappear within the same family, but I feel sure which ever idea anyone subscribes to, in this particular instance, the same notice has been over presented. May I suggest that a better idea would have been to only display it on the profile of the person concerned, and just provide links to it at its source on the profiles of those others who were also mentioned.

Hi once again.
You started the string by seeking documentary evidence that would settle a possible conflict between Johann Jakob Deutsch and Jakob Deutsch. Johann Jakob Deutsch appears on Geni as the husband of Roza Wolf, and the only archival records I can find for them only identify her husband as the Janos Deutsch shown on the death notice.

Sorting that and other related issues so that the names on profiles matched both the death notice and existing archival records would require too many significant adjustments to the profiles, which I feel would be against the wishes of other interested parties. So although I ought to be part of this discussion, I am abstaining from doing so.

Regards Roy

Hi Roy,

I don't fully understand this statement "Sorting that and other related issues so that the names on profiles matched both the death notice and existing archival records would require too many significant adjustments to the profiles".

Did you find any other archival records on these or any other profiles? If so It would be awesome if you provided that info as a source or even just upload it as a photo if you find it easier.
The "interested parties" could work out later the different versions of the names or nicknames or whatever the discrepancy in the profile may be exactly by relying on these available sources.

Sources are very important in supporting the tree and unfortunately I see a significant number of profiles that have no supporting evidence whatsover.

Best,
Theo

Hello Theo

As one of the interested parties, I wish to express my point of view and will follow this up later with something more specific to the matter you have raised

General
As you correctly state:
"Sources are very important in supporting the tree and unfortunately ....a significant number of profiles that have no supporting evidence whatsoever"
I fully agree with this, for all submissions carry far more weight when supported by a link to a source.

Conflict occurs (as in this instance) when language differences are being used to give unsupported submissions priority, whilst any proven evidence is being relegated to the lesser category of being just a nickname. If anything, it should be the unsupported that appears as a nickname, and not the other way around. I believe that it is essential for our ancestors to be known by the names they have been proven to use, and not by any surmised names they might have also been known by. If records do exist to prove an across border dual identity, compromise and give priority to both names rather than classify one as inferior or direct it away from the English as Default section to a language field that people seldom visit.

Regards Roy

Now Specifics
I am unwilling to detail everything or to focus on minor spelling variations,
but here is something for you to just mull over

This is the Geni Profile for Franz Deutsch and a link to it.
Ferencz / Ferenc Deutsch

The profile calls him Franz Deutsch
Gender: Male
Birth: 02 April 1862
Death: 18 November 1923 (61)
District VIII, Budapest, Hungary ("Agyvérzés" (Brain hemorrhage))
Immediate Family:

Son of Johann Jakob Deutsch and Rosa Deutsch
Husband of Regina Deutsch and Rosalia Lukács
Father of Livia Deutsch and Eugen Déri-Deutsch
Brother of Laura Deutsch; Jakob Heim Josef Deutsch; Johanna Deutsch; Róza Deutsch and Rosalia Böhm
Half brother of Siegmund Deutsch; Bertha Mayer; Gisella Kápolnai; Katherina Deutsch and Julianna Horowitz

Now here is a link to his death notice and links to a few related sources
https://dspace.oszk.hu/handle/20.500.12346/392256#
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-D1Z7-JN5?i=403&amp...
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DRJ3-7DG?i=224
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-69ZS-RZN?i=111

The above archival records state that his name was Ferenc and his father was Janos,
But we are asked to accept his Geni profile which has him as Franz son of Johann. WHY

You will discover from the revisions list that the proven names have been changed and now become their nicknames. Alternatives have taken priority even though no supporting references to validate those alternatives have been provided. WHY

Further investigation of the names also proven by this particular death notice and often backed up by archival sources will highlight numerous other name discrepancies.

I have provided this as an example in order to help explain why I have written:
""Sorting that and other related issues so that the names on profiles matched both the death notice and existing archival records would require too many significant adjustments to the profiles".

You find me always willing to compromise, but what I am not prepared to do is accept a proven name as a nickname, and let something that is unproven take its place.

Regards Roy

Hi Roy,

I fully agree with you on the name issue. I had similar clashes in the past with one of the prolific contributors which keeps changing the names to the German version despite the fact that the name that appears in writing are the Hungarian version.

Since I am relatively new on Geni I struggled with how to handle this but now the way I see it is that we should use as primary name the version that we find in writing and give the German language name in this particular case as an additional language version (which can be found when editing the profile). The default language version for names is English, however I think that despite that in this case the Hungarian name should be inputed as default and the German version as a second language.

Another somewhat viable option would be to provide both versions of the name in the default language but that becomes somewhat cumbersome.

I haven't searched to see whether this was discussed earlier in the help menu/forums.
Have you seen or thought of any other possible solutions to this issue?

Theo

Thank you Leanne for your help x 2. I got sidetracked and forgot to do it earlier :)