Patience Berry - Father

Yes, I've seen that. My son is an Ingram and his paternal cousins on multiple descendant branches and he are all I-M253. There is another Ingram who added the R-M269 to the same lines and thats why both show. I've posted about it before and told nothing could be done. From the FTDNA Ingram Y-DNA Project, it shows:

2 924338 Ingram SIR R FITZ INGRAM 1470-1500 England I-M253
44 883360 Ingram Goldman Ingram b.1777 d.1850 United States I-M253

but there are other lines showing R-M269

All I can attest to is that my son, his grandfather's brother's son, that son's son and grandson, and another male cousin on another branch all tested and are I-M253. I can't account for the addition of R-M269 to the same ancestors and Geni seems to leave that to the members to try to sort out.

I messaged the guy who added the R-M269 way back last year and never got a response. I don't know that he is ever on Geni.

I haven't checked this Ingram to see how he connects to my son's lines since the cousin line I'm tracing has nothing to do with the Ingrams but with the Berrys at this point. Totally unrelated search going on regarding a DNA match on Ancestry.

Ok, two things going on here. My son is an Ingram. I'm not searching for anything right now on his lines. I have a DNA match to me, not my son's patenral line, on Ancestry. We are mutual matches to a cousin from Ireland I've been working with for over a year to try to find how we're related. I'm searching the mutual matches on Gedmatch to try to find clues of how I'm related to the Irish cousin who has no ancestors in America.

In the course of that, the mutual match is a descendant of Augustine Berry. So it's his connections I'm trying to get sorted so I know which path to follow. I already had Patience (Smyth) Berry and her husband in my tree so I thought these folks connect to them, as some show, but when I was checking here on Geni...there were conflicting parents for Patience Berry and her supposed brother Augustine. That's where I'm still at.

So you're looking at the Ingram issues and at this time, i'm not. I'm trying to sort Augustines family to see whether or not I'm related via that pathway. It 'just happens' that there is an Ingram line connected. So, I'm not chasing any Ingram connections, but I would like to see the Y-DNA haplogroup fixed on Geni since it has come up.

I've collaborated with one of my son's more distant cousin who had written a paper on the Ingram lines they're from. My son is a double Ingram, being a descendant of an Ingram marrying an Ingram. I've worked with the research from Dr. Charles Ingram in 2020. I have two pdf files sent to me by my son's cousin who was in contact with him. Just one of the pdf files is almost 800 pages. The other pdf file is just some of his references. That pdf file is almost 3500 pages. I did all this work well over a year ago, so it's not at all fresh on my mind, and it doesn't help that it's on my son's paternal side rather than my own that I know better, because that's just too much to try to skim through for any quick answers.

As far as I know, working in collaboration with my son's cousins who had been tested, their having used Dr. Ingram's research and shared it with me, etc., having my son's DNA in the Ingram Y-DNA Project on FTDNA, etc., 'as far as I know', everything in his line is accurate.

His 3rd ggf is Lemuel Ingram, Y-DNA I-M253 who was married to Martha 'Patsy Ingram.
Lemuel's parents were Harmon Ingram and Alcey Collins. Martha's parents were Rev. Joseph Ingram and Sarah Murphy.

All but one set of the cousins my son matches are from Lemuel and Martha's descendants. The other male cousin is a brother of the woman who shared all of Dr. Ingrams' extensive research. Their common ancestor is John (aka Benjamin John) Ingram, Y-DNA I-M253 who was married to Polly Tillman. So everything on that line should all be I-M253. That line traces back to Robert Ingram / Ingraham and his wife Joan (Barrowby) Ingram.

Then switching back over to Martha (Ingram) Ingram's side of my son's tree, that branch also traces back to Robert Ingram / Ingraham and his wife Joan (Barrowby) Ingram, so you'd think that they're all I-M253, but I have a note in my tree:

Thomas Ingram, notes on conflicting Y-DNA results**
1648–1707
BIRTH 1648 • Wiccomocco, Northumberland, Virginia, Colonial America
DEATH 21 MAY 1707 • Wicomocco Parish, Northumberland County, Virginia, Colonial America

There is a problem here. Thomas' sons Charles and John have different Y-DNA haplogroups on Geni, so not sure what's going on with that.

Charlies is the ancestor of Martha 'Patsy'Ingram who is Len Ingram's ancestor.

John is the ancestor of Jefferson Davis Ingram who is Len Ingram's ancestor.

So Len is from this common ancestor Thomas Ingram twice, but on Geni a descendant of Charles' posted his Y-DNA and it populated R-M269 into many of the common ancestors even though Len and his Ingram male cousins who have been tested are all I-M253

There are various scenarios that could cause this, including:

1) David Ingram who posted the R-M269 Y-DNA has his tree wrong

2) David Ingram isn't a biological Ingram

3) A grandmother on one of the lines had an 'Ingram' baby that wasn't a biological Ingram, such as Thomas wasn't the father of John Ingram who has the I-M253 descendants.

I'm the one who put this note in some of the profiles after attempting several times to contact David Ingram whose DNA is in conflict with Len's family:

The Y-DNA conflict showing on this profile and all the downlinen males from here is due to David Ingram's results posted on Geni. Four direct male descendants (representing three descendant branches) from this John Ingram have had their Y-DNA tested and are all I-M253

This person is my son's paternal 8th ggf:

Thomas Ingram

his Y-DNA is showing as R-M269 on Geni

his son John who is my son's 8th uncle shows the conflicting Y-DNA

John Ingram, Sr.

My son's Y-DNA results from FTDNA:

Y-DNA Haplotree - Predicted Haplogroup is I-M253

The male cousins tested who got the same results include:

John Ingram b. 1947 - my son's 1st cousin 1x removed
Shawn Ingram b. 1880 - my son's 2nd cousin
Lee Ingram b. 1964 - my son's 6th cousin 1x removed - from the family who shared Dr. Ingram's research

I 'met' all of them after finding them among my son's DNA matches on Ancestry and being contacted by Lee's sister after she saw Len in the FTDNA Y-DNA Project

The I-M253 haplogroup is more rare than the R-M269, so when Lee's sister saw that Len matched her brother, she knew they had to be related.

Yeah, I felt the same about Dr. Ingram's research, so I totally understand. All I know for certain is the Y-DNA haplogroup of my son and his male cousins. I didn't try to reinvent the wheel on Dr. Ingram's research, but tried to use it as a guideline to putting my son's Ingram line together. I don't know his father's lines as well as I know my own.

Thomas Ingram is my 9th great grandfather 😊