Elizabeth Bailey (Smith) - Mary Smith (Darkinjung Tribe) mother of Elizabeth Smith

Hi Leanne - I did post this last week - don't know what happened to it - posting again.
Hi Leanne M (at Geni)
re Elizabeth SMITH (my 3 x GrGMother). 1. I have had info from a group of three experienced researchers, one being a Jennifer Burgess, looking into the mystery of our Lizzie Smith and her acredited mother Mary Darkinjung. "It has been proven through mtDNA that (again presumed daughter of Joseph SMITH) Elizabeth Smith b 1799 is not part Aboriginal but is in fact of Romani heritage from England. She has no Aboriginal haplogroup in her direct female line from daughter Margaret.” So I have deleted Old Mary from my tree.

Various documents: death certificates, records of birth, medical records, etc have stated that Elizabeth was “of coloured blood”, “probably aboriginal”, “Maori”, etc.

https://www.familysearch.org/photos/artifacts/98207127?cid=mem_copy
“Re: Elizabeth Smith - notes on FamilySearch
Elizabeth was born c1799. This date is due to her age that is on her headstone which was 47. It has always been said that her father was Joseph Smith off the "Neptune 1790". Contact has been made with a descendant of this Joseph Smith, but there is no mention of an Elizabeth in this family as well there is no mention of Elizabeth in Joseph's will or on his death certificate. There was a book written about Joseph Smith and (son-in-law) William Baker, but again there is no mention of Elizabeth. However, it is still just possible that Joseph was her father as her Birth was some two years after his return from Norfolk Island and before he married Margaret Holmes. The only suggestion in regard to having aboriginal blood in her is that it has been said that Elizabeth was of coloured blood and that her children all had a swarthy (dark) complexion. It has been said the Elizabeth was either full blooded or a half cast aboriginal. In saying this, old Clarrie Sternbeck said that his grandmother Mary Sternbeck, (nee Bailey) always said that her mother (Elizabeth) was in fact a Maori. We will never know. The background of Elizabeth Smith will always remain a mystery, as there is no way of establishing her parentage. She could have been a coloured child reared by Joseph and Margaret Smith and taking their name; also given that she named two of her children, Margaret and Joseph, suggests there could have been a connection, but again there is no proof. Elizabeth SMITH is also said to be of the aboriginal Darug Tribe, who lived at Blacktown, NSW in the early 1800's (and still do). Elizabeth Smith aged 29 years married John Bailey aged 31 years in 1828 at St. Albans under the old English “ancient usage of marriage”, but when the Rev. Thomas Sharpe visited the Valley in 1828 the first Anglican Minister to do so, the ritual of the Established Church sealed the Common Law Bond. She was the daughter of Joseph Wilson Smith (convict) and Mary Darkinjung (aboriginal).”

I have also had LENGTHY correspondence with:
Darkinjung Local Aboriginal Land Council <geoff.scott@dlalc.org.au>
Michelle Goldsmith <Michelle.Goldsmith@centralcoast.nsw.gov.au
They can offer me no connections to ‘Old Mary’ Darkinjung or ‘Bumble Darkinjung - this is of course not surprising, as there was never a mission attached to the Darkinjung.

And, of course, my Ancestry DNA updates refuse to connect me to any Australian Aboriginal traits, which they do now test for!! They have suggested my connection is to ancient Romani DNA traits.

This is what I have - if you can offer any proof of connection of Mary to Joseph Smith, or in fact the connection of Joseph to Elizabeth!! I would be eternally grateful.
Thanks for getting in touch
Graeme Hudson.

also: received from

Deborah MArtineer
4/25/2022 at 2:06 PM
Thank you I already have this information as I am a descendant of Elizabeth Bailey & my DNA shows no aboriginal.

I am the Jennifer Burgess who has been researching Elizabeth. There is no Aboriginal in DNA of Elizabeths children's descendants linked to Elizabeth. When this found, Michelle Patient Genealogist advised me to get a mtDNA from a female line descendant, as this would be final proof if Elizabeth had an Aboriginal mother, The Haplogroup is H1bb, very common in England. Even though this is a common Haplogroup there are no zero matches. A distance one match came from Devon in the 1800's. I manage 5 kits from each of Elizabeth's children's descendant's, and Linda Tite a direct descendant through Margaret from her first relationship manages hers and her mothers. Each kit has multiple matches to the same Romani names in England and we have identified a common link of Thomas Smith b 1726 and his wife Hannah Taylor. Names such as Boswell, Lovell, Lee, Cooper White, Stanley and Lock all are shared matches and most match back to Thomas Smith and his Wife. The last Ancestry Ethnicity update now shows Roma for Elizabeth's descendants. There are no matches to indicate that Joseph Smith has any connection to Elizabeth. I have also had access to 2 kits from descendants of Ann Bailey who arrived 1815 on the Northampton, as people think she has a connection to Joseph Smith. Again there are no common matches to Elizabeth. it is possible to identify Elizabeths parents, there are many people of a Romani UK gedmatch project, who match Elizabeth's descendants at 5 generations back. This could be her parents, or even her siblings. It is possible that Elizabeth had other children before she lived with John, as there are many unknown matches in Australia

What evidence are you meaning Leanne

I surveyed over 30 Bailey DNA matches taken at Ancestry, who descended from Elizabeth Smith and John Baileys children, Mary Ann, Margaret, Elizabeth, Thomas and John who all married and had children. 2 of these matches showed Aboriginal, both linked to other family lines. To confirm the absence of Aboriginal in Autosomal tests. a female line descendant had a mtDNA at Family Tree DNA tests which showed Haplogroup H1bb. This Haplogoup is not Aboriginal. The kits that Linda Tite and I manage are now showing Roma ethnicity, as are other descendants of Elizabeth. who have tested with Ancestry.

Joseph Smith convict on the Neptune arrived 1790 is my 3X great grandfather. I have done my DNA and no Bailey connection has come up at all on matches with my DNA. This does not mean that Elizabeth is not his daughter. She was not living with him whilst she was a child. Joseph did have 4 children living with him and his partner Margaret Holmes according to the 1805-1806 muster. These children were, Charlotte, George, James and Joseph. The first three were children from Margaret's previous relationships.

Bruce Sylvester Wallace - Has Jennifer Burgess been in touch with you? If your DNA has a match with Joseph SMITH (Neptune), maybe you could link with Jennifer Burgess, thro this site, and compare your DNA with that of Elizabeth SMITH's descendents? Is there any common DNA (Joseph's) between you and Elizabeth, or was this Elizabeth never in Joseph's family group? That should help a lot of people.

Bruce Sylvester Wallace, from my experience there are no matches to Joseph Smith among the DNA matches I manage and I have also checked DNA from2 descendants of Ann Bailey convict on Northampton who is presumed to be related to Joseph and they also have no matches linking Elizabeth to Joseph or matches in common with the Romani matches Elizabeth's descendants have.

In regard to you message to post more personal details of matches and the results, I will not be doing this for privacy reasons, and also because I have already had two articles published in The Ancestral Searcher magazine in 2018 and 2021 about progress in our search. There are many posts about Elizabeth on three facebook groups , St Albans, Wollombi,Yarramalong and Mangrove Creek and Convict Ancestry. When we do identify Elizabeths parents, it will be published.

Graeme, I have no DNA matches with Jennifer Burgess. Elizabeth Smith's father may have been a Joseph Smith but I am sure not my 3 X Great Grandfather Joseph Smith convict, arrived 1790 on the Neptune. I have many DNA matches from Joseph and his wife Margaret, and from her previous relationships as well. Nothing on the Bailey line or Elizabeth Smith.