Lauritz Nellemann - @Lauritz Nellemann

I don't understand why you insist on having exclusive rights to any profile you are related to and why you only allow your version of data and information on the profiles.
I have a relation to this profile, too.
And I consider it more important to have a profile photo of the person in question instead of the photo of a Allinggård which he never owned.
So your information is not always correct.

Lauritz Nellemann is my 15th cousin thrice removed.
You
→ Elza Dzelvite (Grahpe,Grāpe)
your mother → Jahn Grahpe
her father → Baron Arnold Julius von Vietinghoff-Riesch
his father → Carl Arnold Bar. von Vietinghoff
his father → Reinhold Johann Peter von Vietinghoff
his father → Augusta Christiane Isabella Elisabet von Vietinghoff
his mother → Reinhold Gustaf von Ungern-Sternberg
her father → Reinhold VII (Renaud) von Ungern-Sternberg
his father → Helene Zoege von Manteuffel
his mother → Helena Henriksdotter Horn af Kanckas
her mother → Anna Jönsdotter Snakenborg
her mother → Kristina Joensdotter Gyllenhorn
her mother → Carin Nilsdotter Bese
her mother → Kerstin Gotskalksdotter (Ulv)
her mother → Gotskalk Arendsson (Ulv)
her father → Hebbla Albrektsdatter Bydelsbak
his mother → Agneta Eriksdotter Krummedige
her mother → Erik Segebodsen Krummedige
her father → Mette Segebodsdatter Krummedige
his sister → Elsabe Jul af Sønderjylland
her daughter → Wedder Hinrichsen Frese
her son → Ingken Weddersen Frese av Arlevad
his son → Marine Ingkensdatter Frese
his daughter → Carsten Rickertsen, "den yngre"
her son → Ingeborg Rickerts
his daughter → Aneken Jürgensdatter Spiker
her daughter → Sophie Jacobsdatter Nielsen
her daughter → Catharina Clausdatter Caspergaard
her daughter → Elisabeth Magdalene Christophersdatter Schrøder
her daughter → Mette Sophie Pedersdatter Bering
her daughter → Elisabeth Cathrine Marcussen
her daughter → Mette Sophie Behr
her daughter → Elisabeth Cathrine Worsøe
her daughter → Lauritz Nellemann
her son

I repeat - I have a relation to this profile - and even via 2 paths, of which you have chosen to show the longest.
But it doesn't really matter whether I'm closely or distantly related, when it comes to the question of editing profiles on Geni, as long as I'm related.
It gives me a legitimate right to edit public profiles of deceased persons.
And there are no rules about exclusive rights for persons with a closer relation such as yours in this case.
I support the idea of adding honest and objective data and I don't share your fascination of manor houses and castles, so I changed the profile photo of Allinggård with a photo of Lauritz Nellemann.
After all, it's his profile - and since he has never been the owner of Allinggård I found it appropiate to do so.
You must begin to realise that you cannot absolutely control Geni.
And once more I've reported you for harassment because you continue to mention my name in discussions and question my right of edition and revision of Geni profiles.

Kirsten Kiilerich is Lauritz Nellemann's uncle's sister's husband's third great granddaughter.

Multi Color ...Do you think this is close family ?????

Why was my 1. Line between you and my 1.cousin deleted??

Is a curator involved here ?

You don't seem to get the point.
You are not the absolute ruler of Geni!

Hi Kirsten,
I have followed your way of communicating and unfortunately lack of understanding when it comes to cooperation. Joan is right when it comes to close family.
I have recently learned that some Geni users lack knowledge of what near or close family is.

I think you could benefit from knowing about cousins, relationship or about what a close family is.

Here is a great resource for understanding the cousin levels:
https://www.familysearch.org/en/blog/cousin-chart

Best regards,
Hanne Abel

Lauritz Nellemann is Hanne Abel's first cousin thrice removed's husband's fourth cousin!
Or
Lauritz Nellemann is Hanne Abel's 8th cousin twice removed!

All Public Profiles on Geni can be edited by any and all Geni users.
There is no need to be related.
All information should be documented. All information should be accurate.

Good manners is to start a Public Discussion on the topic if there are others who will likely be interested and it is a nontrivial change.

Re: my comment "Good manners is to start a Public Discussion on the topic if there are others who will likely be interested and it is a nontrivial change."
1) It usually does not happen.
2) "Trivial" changes can also be matters of taste that people have strong opinions about and may experience as extremely rude if you simply go in and change to suit your taste -- I should perhaps have said 'if it is not an obvious error" - obvious errors including typos (no need to start a discussion to change "hte" to "the") and if it is clear what century it is, to change a 2-digit year to a 4 digit year, etc.

What gets my goat is when somebody jumps in and changes a name or date or location and they add no documentation or info for it and I see none already on the profile for it -- or see conflicting documentation, and no explanation why they rejected the choice that had been made.
In those situations when it is a Profile I care about, I will often start a Public Discussion and tag the person asking them why they made that change / what documentation there was for the change, etc.

Hi Joan,
You started this discussion because I had taken the liberty to remove a profile photo that was wrongly placed here on Lauritz Nellemann's profile.
I also made a comment on it and I inserted a link to Alling Skovgård to verify my reason for removing the photo.
You deleted my data inputs without any comments!
Another Geni User tried TWICE to insert a more appropiate profile photo.
The first time a screen-shot of the Churchbook Birth Registration and the second time a photo of Alling Skovgård.
They were both removed without any notice.
To-day you have once more deleted links and comments, inserted by me without any explanation or documentation.
Therefore I have 2 questions for you.
1) Is that your idea of "collaborating on profiles where others may have a legitimate interest"?
Mike Stangel wrote almost like this in another Nellemann discussion before it was closed.
2) Is it your idea of good manners on Geni and adding well documented and accurate information?

Joan Karin Marcussen

1) Private User if I understand her correctly, says she removed a photo and replaced it with another, and made a comment on it and inserted a link to Alling Skovgård to verify her reason for removing the photo.
Is that correct, or which parts are you saying did not happen?

2) Also, according to her, you deleted her data inputs without any comments. Is that correct, or??

3) You started this discussion, but I do not see any explanation in it - by you or anyone else - as to why your choice of Profile Photo was a good choice. Nor why her choice is a bad choice.

This conflict started when I added birth information on Laurits Nellemann's profile. 2 other Geni users kept "correcting" my info and wrote in his About Me that he was NOT born on the estate of Estruplund, although that was written in the birth record. They kept correcting birth place to tenant house, Estruplund, although that house was built much later. The conflict ended, when his birth record was transcribed, which clearly told that he really was born on Estruplund, and that the owner lived somewhere else. Luckily the owner was one of the sponsores at the baptism.

Later the same Geni users started changing his death information again without starting a discussion on the profile.
No trustworthy sources have been available from the internet, and some of them mixed up Laurits Nellemann with his grandson of the same name.
I have just added a more trustworthy source, giving details of the owners of Allinggaard, which was owned by Laurits Nellemann's son and later his grandson.

My point of starting this discussion, however, is that a couple of Geni users change info without asking other managers and without adding precise sources to prove their changes. This did NOT happen here.

The correct action when someone changes info on a Profile you care about in a way you disagree with or question is for you to start a Public Discussion about it, not turn an edit into an edit war.

And by "start a Public Discussion about it" I mean one focused on the info that was changed and explaining why the info that was there before is the correct info and / or why you think the info they entered is wrong and / or asking for the source of their info.
Not one to discuss how awful it is that some 'Geni users change info without asking other managers'

By changing it back without starting a Public Discussion focused on the info in question and which info is correct and how one knows,.you are more in the wrong than she is.

Joan Karin Marcussen
You say above "I have just added a more trustworthy source, giving details of the owners of Allinggaard, which was owned by Laurits Nellemann's son and later his grandson."
BUT you do not give that info here.

Profiles can be changed by anyone at any time. Public Discussions are more permanent.
That information either belongs just here or both here and on the Profile.

Foto af nedenstående under medier : Fra Trap Danmark, udgivet 1925, Bind 5, side 304: H. Th. Uldall Jørgensen afhændede Allinggaard 1890 for omtrent 60.000 kr. til højesteretsadvokat S. S. Nellemann, der atter samlede hele ejendommen, idet han 1884 havde købt Alling Skovgaard for 245.000 af hans fader, justitsråd L. Nellemann og samme år Alling Mølle for 46.400 kr.
Han (justitsråd S. S. Nellemann) døde 1915, og hans søn, løjtnant L. Nellemann, afhændede 1918 den samlede ejendom til et konsortium for 850.000 kr.
Denne kilde virker langt mere troværdig end flere af de kilder, der er lagt på fra hjemmesider, der ikke har links til originale kilder og ikke er nær så detaljerede is on the profile now

The statement that a photo of a certain page in an ancient description of regions and estates in Denmark, published in 1925, almost a hundred years ago, should be a more trustworthy source than others, is a very subjective one.
It doesn't add any credibility to your discussion either.
On the contrarary - it actually shows that my point was right: Lauritz Nellemann never owned Allinggaard.
So I've removed your transcript of it from Lauritz Nellemann's profile where it doesn't belong.
It can still be read on his son and grandson's profiles though.
It looks as if you're unwilling to answer my questions so I see no point in going on with discussion.
Accordingly, this will be my last contribution to it.

Kirsten Kiilerich...

If you just have ask me if I was right, I have been able to see that the picture and text was placed under the wrong person ... with same name. !?

But instead you remove and delete....that is not collaborating on geni I suppose !?

Good manners is to start a Public Discussion ...before just change !

Joan Karin Marcussen -- in https://www.geni.com/discussions/254445?msg=1585679 you announce "I have just added a more trustworthy source, giving details of the owners of Allinggaard, which was owned by Laurits Nellemann's son and later his grandson." - in other words, you made a change, and then announced it here.
It then seems extremely hypocritical for you to complain when Kirsten follows the exact same policy. You did not "start a Public Discussion ...before just change" Neither did she.

That you are both announcing and discussing your changes after they are made seems like a step in the right direction.
Perhaps you will reach the point where you each discuss changes before making them - but at the moment this seems to be as close as either of you can get.

If copy and paste works, this is what was deleted on 13 Sept 2022 in Kirsten's first edit of the About on that date:
<<
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www.danskeherregaarde.dk/nutid/allinggaard

'''Kommentar fra JM: Her står intet sted at Lauritz Nellemann var ejer, '''men fra 1847 var han ejer sammen med faderen jfr. Leo Wad nedenunder !!!''''''

'''Ejere af Allinggaard:

..'''.Alling Kloster, Allinggård og Alling Skovgård udgjorde en samlet ejendom indtil 1820''', hvor Alling Kloster og Alling Skovgård blev''' udskilt fra Allinggård. Allinggård,'''

Alling Kloster og Alling Skovgård havde dog samme ejer i årene 1890-1918.....'''1847-1884 Laurits Nellemann,''' justitsråd 1884-1915 Sophus Scavenius Nellemann, højesteretsadvokat'''

'''I 1890 blev Allingaard samlet ti Alling Skovgaard og Alling Møller, og den gamle Hovedgaard igen samlet!!!'''

Født på Estruplund.... død på .Allingskovgaard.

'''Justitsråd, landvæsenskommissær, exam. jur'''. Laurits Nellemann (1803-87) '''til Allingskovgård,''''''''' Svostrup sogn.

Laurits Nellemann hædredes for sit virke med titlen''' Justitsråd.'''

Bestod dansk juridisk eksamen 1825, var en tid fuldmægtig på byfogedkontoret i Århus. Blev gift d. 4 okt 1828 med Anna Lorentze Hyphoff ( 1805-69 ) en præstedatter fra Lyngå.

Af deres mange børn skal nævnes forvalter på '''Frijsenborg og Allingskovgård''', korporal Rasmus Schmidt Nellemann (1830-64)

https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid7874030

'''Laurits Nellemann (1803-1887) '''Købte Allingskovgård i 1847''' og lod opføre en ny hovedbygning og lidt senere
nye staldlænger. Familien flyttede ind i 1848. Laurits Nellemann var en ivrig skovmand med interesse for skovrejsning. Også politisk var ejeren på Allingskovgård aktiv dels som formand for Grønbæk-Svostrup Sogneforstanderskab (fra 1867 kaldet sognerådet) og dels som medlem af Viborg Amtsråd.

Leo Wad'''
**

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https://www.danskeherregaarde.dk/nutid/estruplund

https://www.danskeherregaarde.dk/nutid/allinggaard. ( det tidl, link var ødelagt !? )

**
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According to Google Translate, that is:
<<
*
www.danskeherregaarde.dk/nutid/allinggaard

'''Comment from JM: It is nowhere stated that Lauritz Nellemann was the owner, '''but from 1847 he was the owner together with his father, cf. Leo Wad below !!!''''''

'''Owners of Allinggaard:

..'''.Alling Kloster, Allinggård and Alling Skovgård constituted a single property until 1820''', when Alling Kloster and Alling Skovgård were''' separated from Allinggård. Allinggård,'''

However, Alling Kloster and Alling Skovgård had the same owner in the years 1890-1918.....'''1847-1884 Laurits Nellemann,''' councilor of justice 1884-1915 Sophus Scavenius Nellemann, Supreme Court lawyer''

'''In 1890, Allingaard was united ten Alling Skovgaard and Alling Møller, and the old Hovedgaard again united!!!''

Born at Estruplund.... died at .Allingskovgaard.

'''Council of Justice, Commissioner of Agriculture, exam. jur'''. Laurits Nellemann (1803-87) '''to Allingskovgård,''''''''' Svostrup parish.

Laurits Nellemann was honored for his work with the title ''Council of Justice.''

Passed the Danish legal exam in 1825, was for a time clerk at the town clerk's office in Aarhus. Was married on 4 Oct 1828 to Anna Lorentze Hyphoff ( 1805-69 ), a priest's daughter from Lyngå.

Of their many children, the administrator at '''Frijsenborg and Allingskovgård''', Corporal Rasmus Schmidt Nellemann (1830-64) must be mentioned

https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid7874030

'''Laurits Nellemann (1803-1887) '''Purchased Allingskovgård in 1847''' and had a new main building and a little later
new stables built. The family moved in in 1848. Laurits Nellemann was a keen forester with an interest in forestry. The owner of Allingskovgård was also politically active partly as chairman of Grønbæk-Svostrup Parish Council (called the parish council from 1867) and partly as a member of Viborg County Council.

Leo Wad'''
**

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https://www.danskeherregaarde.dk/nutid/estruplund

https://www.danskeherregaarde.dk/nutid/allinggaard . (it tidl, link was broken !?)

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Is that the information you two disagree about, either as fact or as relevance to that profile, or what is?

I started this discussion, because KK and sometimes her collaborators without asking other managers change info on profiles – not only this one – and constantly either cut and paste texts, I added to their About Me, or simply delete my texts. If you look at the revision of this profile, you will see, how many times About Me was changed, so noone can see, who wrote what.
The extract from Trap Danmark was relevant for both Laurits Nellemann, his son and his grandson, but KK just deleted it, telling it was not relevant. It tells me that she did not read and understand the text, it also tells me, that she does NOT understand what this discussion is about: Cooperation on common profiles. Cooperation is NOT just deleting and changing without communicating with other managers!

I see the Subject Line of this Discussion as "(Reported)"
I am guessing that is because
starting a Public Discussion to Publicly complain, especially by name, about what other Geni Users do is not acceptable on Geni.

Do you prefer to start a separate Discussion to discuss the actual issues with this profile and what should be posted on it, rather than using this one for that?