Sir John Freeman, Baron Fremingham of Glassenbury - One portrait

Jeremiah Jon Freeman PRO

12/30/2022 at 1:39 PM

Hello all,

Sir John is my 16th great-grandfather, I was eager to share his portrait with my family, however the same exact image appeared Google and published history books for another man named Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex 1565-1601. Does anyone know who this portrait belongs to? Any information at all would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Erica Howton C

12/30/2022 at 2:29 PM

Definitely Decereux, it’s quite famous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Devereux,_2nd_Earl_of_Essex#/m...

https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw02131

Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex

I’ll remove it from Sir John’s profile.

Erica Howton C

12/30/2022 at 2:32 PM

Her image needs checking also.

Lady Anne Wingfield

Erica Howton C

12/30/2022 at 2:34 PM

Private User - do you recognize Lady Wingfield [sic]

Erica Howton C

12/30/2022 at 2:38 PM

Her headdress and clothing look Henry Vlll to me - 100 years later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Boleyn

Jeremiah Jon Freeman PRO

12/30/2022 at 2:55 PM

Thanks for clearing that up. I stumbled upon this by accident looking for a higher resolution picture. I can't speak for lady Agnes if it's her or not as I can only find very small poor resolution pics of her - if that even is a legitimate pic of Wingfield.

I am also investigating why there is a sudden stop in the de Fremingham line at Sir John (1300-1349) and then continues under the name de Vernon at this particular website:

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/G8GK-FNT

If this information I discovered is true, then we may be able to continue the family name further back, but there is still a mystery as to why the Surname suddenly changed.

Erica Howton C

12/30/2022 at 2:58 PM

Submitted pedigrees like that link should be taken as clue only, of course. But in general, surnames were fluid. The most changes I have noticed were property associated; or sometimes taking the wife’s family name.

Erica Howton C

12/30/2022 at 3:01 PM

Here’s the Richard de Vernon of the link.

Sir Richard de Vernon

Private User

12/30/2022 at 3:15 PM

That’s not Lady Wingfield. That’s Joan of Castile.

Erica Howton C

12/30/2022 at 3:29 PM

I knew you’d know! Removing.

Jeremiah Jon Freeman PRO

12/30/2022 at 3:29 PM

Yes I agree. Totally Joan of Castile.

Erica Howton C

12/30/2022 at 3:29 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joanna_of_Castile

Jeremiah Jon Freeman PRO

12/30/2022 at 4:17 PM

Still trying to figure out the mystery of the sudden Surname changes between John de Fremingham to his father with surname de Vernon. Related to both one from my mom's side and the other from my dad's side. lol

Erica Howton C

12/30/2022 at 5:02 PM

Jeremiah - I’ve been poking around the Vernon’s. There’s nothing to indicate they brought forth Framingham’s.

FamilySearch has many, many errors.

Here’s a good page to look at Vernon and you’ll see for yourself.

http://cybergata.com/roots/1296.htm

Jeremiah Jon Freeman PRO

12/30/2022 at 5:33 PM

woops i just merged them. now what do i do? 0-0

Jeremiah Jon Freeman PRO

12/30/2022 at 5:40 PM

Its Ralph's son, Richard de Vernon, that could be John's dad. Still investigating.

Erica Howton C

12/30/2022 at 6:19 PM

I disconnected John de Fremingham from parents.

Start by filling in more details on John, his wife Anne Freeman & son Sir Ralph de Fremingham

And I don’t mean links to submitted pedigrees on FamilySearch. :).

Jeremiah Jon Freeman PRO

12/30/2022 at 6:28 PM

Cool thanks for the help.

Sir John Freeman, Baron Fremingham of Glassenbury - One portrait - two people

Participants:

Profiles Mentioned:

Create a free account or login to participate in this discussion