Margaret Home - Date inconsistencies

Hi Private User

I’m going to look at TSP, thePeerage.com, Clan MacFarlane, and Stirnet,

and the profile called "Immigrant George" Hume

As you can, can you look for primary sources?

Hi Ozren Čulić Viskota Žava

I believe the 1675 birth date for Lady Margaret Hume is an error, and have erased it. There is no birth date given her in the pedigrees, only a death date.

However, I believe her mother’s Jean Dalmahoy baptism date of 19.04.1688, which is seen in Cockayne’s Complete baronetage, is also an error, and a bigger one , because that’s the date given on a baptism record.

But it looks like it’s really the baptism date for her niece, Jean Dalmahoy Some pedigrees “solved” this record issue by making the two women one. I’ve now separated them.

The site https://www.stirnet.com/genie/data/british/dd/dalmahoy1.php#dau2 got it correctly, I think.

I’m hoping Neil in Scotland will agree, and perhaps even have access to an actual image of the baptisms, or other primary sources to confirm Stirnet’s study,

That will take time. In the meanwhile, feel free to present other evidence - but it would need to be primary,

Great Erica Howton, thx for solved, this make sense, I also was thinked is a mistake and somewhere error.

Then the correct facts have a sense:

[[Lady Margaret Hume Lady Margaret Hume] Margaret Hume (Home)] was born in 1675 (or 1671, if she was born in 1671 then she was bapt. in 1675 (?)), seems she was married twice, her 1st (or 2nd) husband was John Walker, she died in 1765, in 1695 she married with Sir George Home, 10th Baron of Wedderburn at MH a record and match of their marriage at MH at date 4 Oct 1695, [[Sir John Home of Lumsden, 2nd Baronet Sir John Home of Lumsden, 2nd Baronet] Sir John Home of Lumsden, 2nd Baronet] and of Manderston, was born at 6 Aug 1679 (died 21 Dec 1756), [[Elizabeth Hume, of Lumsden Elizabeth Hume, of Lumsden] Elizabeth] born in c. 1681 (but I think she was born in 1679) - d. 1716

Hope a Private User can check in Scotland & England records for confirm above facts.

Ozren Čulić Viskota Žava - no, that’s incorrect. The 1671 record is:

as Margrat Home Christening Feb 5 1671 Athelstaneford, East Lothian, Scotland Father Robert Home.

The Margaret you’re concerned with married in 1695, for the first & only time. Her father was Lord Patrick Hume from Aberdeen, not the Edinburgh area like the 1671 woman.

Also, the birth date of 1679 for her brother Sir John Home of Lumsden, 2nd Baronet is not confirmed by primary record.

However, I do think the range of dates is likely. But for Scotland we are using primary sources and leaving it off the profile if we don’t have the record. And records need to be supplemented with pedigrees and peerage reports (if applicable), because there are so many names that are similar.

I do not think it’s likely we’ll have birth records for this family, but there should be other records that will confirm relationships.

(THE FACULTY OF ADVOCATES OF SCOTLAND 1532-1943 WITH GENEALOGICAL NOTES 1944 p.103) < link > shows Lord Patrick Hume wife as Margaret.

So there may be further mixups ….

think this is the record Faculty of Advocates has, and I don’t think it’s this Sir Patrick. Our guy was in Berwick.

Name Margaret Baird & Patrik Home
Marriage Apr 20 1676 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
Wife Margaret Baird
Husband Patrik Home
Indexing Project (Batch) Number M11982-4
System Origin Scotland-ODM

Erica, seems is another Patrik Home or maybe a same Sir Patrick who was maybe had 1st marriage with Margaret Baird at this date 20 Apr 1676 or maybe a son from a his 1st marriage. And Sir Patrick was married again after Margaret Baird's death in 1678/1679 , with Jean ‘the elder’ Dalmahoy ?

but a Margaret Baird (from a marriage event in 1676, I supose is this a same person maybe Margaret Baird ?

Private User Erica Howton what you think

Note: The date of marriage 4 Oct 1695 added as wrong bet. Sir Patrick Home, 1st Baronet of Lumsden and Jean ‘the elder’ Dalmahoy , date of marriage need to be in 1678 or 1679 (?), if you see below when their chldrens born. The date 4 Oct 1695 is date of marriage bet. Sir George Home, 10th Baron of Wedderbur and Margaret Hume, of Lumsden, daughter of Sir Patrick Home, 1st Baronet of Lumsden and Jean ‘the elder’ Dalmahoy.

I don’t know which Margaret Baird & which Patrick Home. I just know that it’s not for this Lord Patrick Hume If it was, it would be noted in Peerage reports. It is not.

Yes, the “ 4 Oct 1695 is date of marriage bet. Sir George Home, 10th Baron of Wedderbur and Margaret Hume, of Lumsden, daughter of Sir Patrick Home, 1st Baronet of Lumsden and Jean ‘the elder’ Dalmahoy.” That’s correct (and as noted in Peerage reports).

I am finding the Margaret Baird reference for Patrick Home. 1st Bart.

https://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Margaret_Baird_%2817%29

The Scots magazine or general repository of literature, history and poltics. (Ann Arbor, Michigan: University Microfilms International, 1984) 8:97.
Deaths..1745..Feb.12. At Edinburgh, Dame Margaret Baird, relict of Sir Patrick Home.

So how i said and think that seems coorect maybe in previous comment Margaret Baird was a wife of Patrick Home. 1st Bart. -> Patrick Home, 1st Baronet of Lumsden Est 1650 - 1723

Resolved :)

No, you’ve opened cans of worms! :)

Dame Margaret Hume Created profile. More kids, probably.

So how is his wife Dame Margaret Baird dead in 1745 and his wife Jean Dalhomoy dead in 1756? And how did he marry Jean in 1695 and have a child with Margaret in 1702?

Something is still wormy.

Above in previous comment I said in the note the date of marriage was added wrong

Note: The date of marriage 4 Oct 1695 added as wrong bet. Sir Patrick Home, 1st Baronet of Lumsden and Jean ‘the elder’ Dalmahoy , date of marriage need to be in 1678 or 1679 (?), if you see below when their chldrens born. The date 4 Oct 1695 is date of marriage bet. Sir George Home, 10th Baron of Wedderbur and Margaret Hume, of Lumsden, daughter of Sir Patrick Home, 1st Baronet of Lumsden and Jean ‘the elder’ Dalmahoy.

But now based on this what you found it, seems Patrik was married after death of his 1st wife in bet. 1747- 1750 (not in 1678/1679)

Different Patrick Hume.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Robert_Baird,_1st_Baronet

Sir Robert Baird (1630-1697) was a Scottish merchant, landowner, and investor in colonial enterprise in the Province of Carolina.[1]

Marriage and children

Baird married Elizabeth Fleming (died 1676), a daughter of Malcolm or Michael Fleming of Ratho Byres. Their children included:

Margaret Baird, who married Patrick Hume of Renton and Coldingham.[35]

Unless that’s the same guy …

Hume, Edgar Erskine. “A Colonial Scottish Jacobite Family: Establishment in Virginia of a Branch of the Humes of Wedderburn (Continued).” The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography 38, no. 2 (1930): 97–124. http://www.jstor.org/stable/4244318.

Ozren - he’s dead 1723.

His widow Margaret dead 1746.

His widow Jean dead 1756 (SOURCE: Complete baronetage; Cokayne, George E. (George Edward); 1904; Vol. IV; page 375). http://archive.org/stream/cu31924092524408#page/n393/mode/2up

How could this be?

Sir Robert Baird (1630-1697) was a son of James Baird, a lawyer and a younger son of Gilbert Baird of Auchmedden, and Bathia Dempster., William N. Fraser, Account of the Surname of Baird, particularly of the families of Auchmedden (Edinburgh, 1870), pp. 17-22

Based on this below

Lord Patrick Hume in Feb 1723

He m. Jean, da. of "William Dalmahoy, of Ravelrig, co. Edinburgh, Quartermaster of the King's troop of Guards (s. of Sir Alexander Dalmahoy, of that ilk), by Helen, da. of ( — ) Maktin. He, having entailed the estate of Lumsden, etc., a few days previously, d. Feb. 1723. Funeral escutcheon at Lyon office. His widow, who was bap. 19 April 1688, d. 23 Jan. 1756.

Jean, da. of "William Dalmahoy, of Ravelrig, was a his widow bap. 19 April 1688 (born possible at date 17 or 18 Apr 1688, d. 23 Jan 1756.

In above not mentioned that they were married at date 04 Oct 1695, what is now in theri profiles, that is wrong, and cannot be a true because Jean died in 1756.

Based on deaths of all

Sir Patrick Home, 1st Baronet of Lumsden (d. Feb 1723) and Jean, da. of "William Dalmahoy, of Ravelrig, co. Edinburgh, Quartermaster of the King's troop of Guards were not married in 4 Oct 1695 (incorrect date), a possible the were married in 1747 or bet. 1747-1748 or (?), based on the Patrik 1st wife Margaret (d. 1746)

But also a years 1747 or bet. 1747-1748 of their marriage cannot be because Patrik died in Feb 1723, so possible they were married in 1700's or bet 1702 - 1723, based on the birth of Patrik's daugt. Isobell (b. bef. 22. June 1702.) from a Patrik's 1st marriage.

Erica, so, only what we need to find is a correct date of marriage bet. Sir Patrick Home and Jean Dalmahoy.

But how I saw in the sources that date of their marriage nowhere not mentioned.

Did I miss something in the sources for about their marriage?

You need to think that the Jean Dalmahoy marriage is spurious & that Patrick’s only marriage was to Margaret Baird. Go back and analyze the other Jean more. Maybe they’re the same after all and never married to Patrick.

• Hume, Edgar Erskine. “A Colonial Scottish Jacobite Family: Establishment in Virginia of a Branch of the Humes of Wedderburn.” The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography, vol. 38, no. 1, 1930, pp. 1–37. JSTOR, http://www.jstor.org/stable/4244310. Accessed 2 Jan. 2023.

Patrick died 1723: Margaret his widow died 1745. that’s it, we have those records.

If I good understood Sir Robert Baird, 1st Baronet of Saughton Hall is a same person at Wikipedia father of [[Dame Margaret Hume Dame Margaret Hume] Margaret] and husband of Elizabeth Fleming.

Daughter Margaret Baird, who married Patrick Hume of Renton and Coldingham [ 35 ] Roll of Edinburgh Burgesses (Edinburgh, 1929), p. 100. ] is a same Lord Patrick Hume in this source at wikipedia his name was mentioned as Patrick Hume instead Patrik Home.

Surname Home/Hume, the all different source mentioned different writing and spelling but that is a same family surname and family. Is it or not?

My opinion it is same surname but little different written and spelling in the some sources, insted Home, the letter 'o' transformed into letter 'u" then surname became Hume for some kind of reason, and was used sometiomes as Hume instead Home. Maybe a true reason how some priest was wrote in the church records, documents, wills; and later someone understand the surname as Hume instead Home, and possible someone wrong read it.

However, there is not a doubt and question did a same surname Home/ Hume, because in the below generations also some of other family members were mentioned in the some sources at the same way.

Question: Does anybody able to see full source: Hume, Edgar Erskine. “A Colonial Scottish Jacobite Family: Establishment in Virginia of a Branch of the Humes of Wedderburn (Continued).” The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography 38, no. 2 (1930): 97–124. http://www.jstor.org/stable/4244318. or download how we can confirm above facts.

Private User are you maybe able to see full this source.

Ozren Čulić Viskota Žava - you can sign in via google and view. The articles are in copyright so they shouldn’t be uploaded.

This is part 1:

Hume, Edgar Erskine. “A Colonial Scottish Jacobite Family: Establishment in Virginia of a Branch of the Humes of Wedderburn (Continued).” The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography, vol. 38, no. 4, 1930, pp. 293–346. JSTOR, http://www.jstor.org/stable/4244372. Accessed 2 Jan. 2023.

There’s discussion of Home vs Hume many places. It’s the same family, pronounced Hume, but often spelled Home.

I will merge the Robert Baird profiles.

The articles do not discuss the mother of Margaret & Elizabeth Home unfortunately.

This is the screen where you can sign up with JSTOR and be able to view their articles.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/4244318

Ha! The Jean confusion is not new at all.

See https://soc.genealogy.medieval.narkive.com/ZdCr2zoB/help-with-the-r...

Help with the royal and noble ancestry of George Home/Hume of Virginia (1698 - 1760)

I have been going though my tree and trying to improve it with better
sources and dates, and one of the most troublesome is the vast
ancestry of George Home (1698 - 1760), of the Wedderburn Homes,
Jacobite rebel and later surveyor in Virginia.
His royal ancestry I am not calling into doubt, it seems to be one of
the most solid of any American colonist, its the details of his
mother's side of the family where I have encountered problems and
conflicts. It is also this side of the family that he gets his
descent from James V of Scotland. His parents are Sir George Home and
Margaret Home, daughter of a Patrick Home and a Jean Dalmahoy. Its
with Patrick that I find most of the problems.

One of the more prominent websites with George Home's large tree is
the following:

http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hume/tree/1349.htm

You see here he calls this Patrick Home 1st Baronet of Lumsden.

But wikipedia (usually pretty good with royal genealogy) on the page
for his father, says that the FIRST Patrick Home was Baronet of
Lumsden, not the Patrick, son of Margaret Stewart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Home,_Lord_Renton

But then I notice that on the wikipedia page for the various Home
Baronets, it lists a different Patrick Home as Baronet of Lumdane with
the right dates, instead of Lumsden:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Baronets

Unfortunately, ThePeerage website does not go far enough to cover this
generation.

There is another problem with Patrick Home's wife Jean. Look at the
birth/death date and then look at the birth dates of her children.
Shes born after her own daughter!:

http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hume/tree/25197.htm

This one guy with obviously wrong dates wouldnt be a problem except
that basically everyone else on the web cites the same information.

So I wonder if maybe this guy (whom everyone else seems to copy from)
just has his Patrick Homes mixed up (the Baronets of Lumsden and
Lumdane) ? But they sound like they are the same thing (Lumsden <-->
Lumdane) And then there is the obvious problem with Jean's
'birthdate'.

I could use some help with this line if someone else here has
straightened it out. Right now it doesnt make sense.

Next post.

Sir Alexander had issue as did Sir Patrick, who married twice, firstly
to Margaret Baird on 20 April 1676 at St Giles Edinburgh. His second
wife was Jean daughter of Sir William Dalmahoy of Ravelrig, who is
said to be the Jean who was baptized 19 April 1688 at the Canongate
Kirk, Edinburgh. If this is so she was a trophy wife!

Sir Patrick had by Margaret Baird Sir John Home of Lumsden, baptized 6
Aug 1679, St Giles, and Margaret who married Sir George Home 3rd Bart
of Wedderburn. These were the parents of the Virginian, George Home,
born apparently 30 May 1697 (not 1698.)