Joseph Samons link to Leib Myer Shishe and Sara Hene Shishe (Gruslavski)

Started by Private User on Wednesday, February 8, 2023
Showing all 10 posts

I am the Great-Grandson of Joseph Samons (Shishe/Sischy).

I am working with David Jackson (Family line Gershon Shishe) and Dr Martin Been (Family line Gershon Shishe) to try and solve this age old mystery. I only recently got to know David and Martin, wail trying to get in contact with someone researching my Ancestral History. I posted on JewishGen after finding info of a possible Surname match.

In Summary here is my story:

My Great-Grandfather was born as the son of a Rabbi (Shishe) in 1887 in Vieksniai, Lithuania in either March or April.

He fled to South Africa in 1901 at age 13 as a stowaway on a ship and arrived at Cape Town. A very good friend of his whom accompanied him, died at sea.
He had family in South Africa - most likely an elder Sister/Sisters and relatives of both Martin and David.
His surname got changed to Samons somewhere between 1901 and 1910.

in 1908 he took on the Apostolic Faith and was immediately treated as being dead by his family. (Thus my predicament - all traces/records, etc. were lost to generations to come, except for the life-testimony told to all of us and carried by every generation thus far)
On the 29th of March 1910 he got married to Johanna Maria Samons (Campher), SM/PROG
They had 10 or 11 children of which 3 died (I found proof of 2 that died as infants)
He bought farmland in Wolwespruit, Wolmaransstad in 1922 up to 1949.
He was therefore both a Stock-farmer as well as an Apostolic Evangelist with the AFM Church.
He was only given Naturalization by the South African Dept.of Home Affairs, Pretoria, on the 16th of January 1950
He died at age 63 and 2 months on the 9th of June 1950.

His live is a mystery between 1901 and 1908/1910.

Even more so between Birth in 1887 and coming to South Africa in 1901.

AND EVER-SINCE, we are try to put the pieces of the puzzle together and making sense of all. Trying to find out who we really are and where we are coming from.

There is a lot of records proving the existence of Rabbi Leib Myer Shishe from Vieksniai, Lithuania, his wife and children of which there were 15, but only the names of 14 were ever mentioned among the relatives and family on the sides of David and Martin. We never knew that part of the history, until I made contact with David and Martin.

I'm desperately trying to get answers, as myself has been searching for more than 30 years. Me being Afrikaans, doesn't make it any easier. Especially understanding the Russian/Lithuanian/Jewish written records.

Info as follow:

Joseph Samons (Joseph (Josef) Samons, SV/PROG)

Most likely his Father:
Leib Myer Shishe

Son of Yankel Sischy and Chane bat Meyer Shishe
Husband of Sara Hene Shishe
Father of Nachmanas Leizer Shishe; Sophie Sischy; Aron Zvi Sischy; Chaya Rifka Sischy and Rachel Sischy
Brother of Ovsey Shishe; Gershon Shishe and Malke Shishe

Most likely his mother:
Sara Hene Shishe (Gruslavski)

Daughter of Aizikas Gruslavski and Dora Gruslavski
Wife of Leib Myer Shishe
Mother of Nachmanas Leizer Shishe; Sophie Sischy; Aron Zvi Sischy; Chaya Rifka Sischy and Rachel Sischy

Joseph (Josef) Samons, SV/PROG

Hi Rudi,

The records from Lithuania can be hit or miss.

Most of the metrical (births, marriages, deaths) records started fairly late in the 19th century, and only a few of those survived the wars of the 20th.

What remains, for the most part, are periodic surveys of the various communities, with large gaps between them. If somebody is born after one of those were recorded, they may not appear in any records.

By the way, a cousin of your great-grandfather married one of my cousins! Connection is here: Private

Regards,

Jeremy Lichtman
(Of Toronto, formerly of Cape Town)

I see Dr Martin Been on Geni as the great grandson of Gershon Shishe.
You, if correct, are the 2nd great grandson of Lieb Shishe

Is your father still alive? He and Martin would be 3rd cousins - have your father and Martin done DNA testing?
Anyone else alive of that generation or earlier that can also test?
Results for several at one of the sites with a Chromosome Browser might, with a little luck, give some insights.

Hi Jeremy,

Thanks for coming back to me.

Yes it is very difficult get any info.

I see you are related to Gershon Shishe. Thus you are also related to David Jackson and Martin Been. They are also assisting in this research.

They both shared the same family story about my Great-Grandfather, and that is how we started putting the puzzle together.

But proof of birth is still the issue.

Are you at all related to Benny Sischy (BenZion).

BenZion was born in SA on the 4th Nov 1925.the grandson of Leib Myer Shishe.

Ben Zion emigrated to Canada and died in 2009. Ben "told" Martin about our family history.

Regards,

Rudi Samons

Hi Rudi,

I'm not directly related to the Sischy family, it is by marriage.

I think a number of members of that family came to SA though. There was a large wave of immigration from Lithuania to SA around the turn of the 20th century. One family member would come, and then write back home to encourage others to come too.

I'm not in contact with any of the Sichy family though, unfortunately. My late grandmother may have been at one point (she stayed in touch by mail with many of her cousins). That generation have mostly gone now, sadly.

Regards,

Jeremy

Private User - forgot to tag you above, but the "you" I was talking to was you, not Jeremy.
About 10% of third cousins do not have matching DNA, but most do, and often that can prove or at least strongly support common ancestry.

Private User Thanks for the info.

I had a DNA test done by a South African company, BioCertica, but if I upload the RAW file it indicates as invalid.

Thus, I recently ordered the MyHeritage DNA kit, and wil be redoing it soon.

Dr.Martin Been already did his DNA test with a MyHeritage DNA kit.

Thus, yes we will be comparing DNA as soon as results are available. My father is still alive as well, and I order a Kit for him as well.

In the meantime, I'm trying my best to get as many facts and records possible.

Regards,

Rudi.

Private UserThanks for the reply.

Yes, it is sad that the technology wasn't available 20years earlier.

It would have been much easier getting answers...

But it seems that some answers was kept quite at that time for reasons beyond our understanding..

Regards,

Rudi.

Rudi - if there is anybody a generation back from your father and Dr.Martin Been that is still alive, DNA tests from them would be very valuable to get as well. Or is that generation all deceased without having tested?
(Each generation back doubles the amount of DNA they have from the given line)

Private User Seems that all are deceased on either side.

Showing all 10 posts

Create a free account or login to participate in this discussion