John Barclay, Jr. - Different John Barclays convoluted into one?

Started by Private User on Sunday, April 9, 2023
Problem with this page?

Participants:

Profiles Mentioned:

Related Projects:

Showing all 10 posts

I'm curious about this John Barclay.
It has:
Birth: December 07, 1660
Kilwinning, North Ayrshire, Scotland, United Kingdom
Death: after 1688
Nairn, Highland, Scotland, United Kingdom
Immediate Family:
Son of Sir John Riddle Barclay, Sr. and Jean Isabel Gordon
Husband of Elspeth Balvaird

This information appears to belong to different John Barclays.

There were several John Barclays who seem to get confused with each other. People on the FarmilySearch tree are always merging them into each other.

According to the records we have, there was:
John Barclay, born 7 Dec 1690, not 1660, 1690, in Kilwinning to John Barclay & Jean Jamison. [https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/record-results/13057199916433721... ScotlandsPeople] has the original copy of the birth record.

There was also a John Barclay of Gooseloan who had a daughter Margaret who was baptized at Dalry, Ayrshire, 31 Oct 1685. Dalry is very near Kilwinning, which is the birthplace listed for John Barclay.

On the other side of Scotland from Kilwinning, in Midlothian, we have:
John Barclay & Elspeth Balvaird
*Jean Barclay c. 20 Jan 1682/83, Inveresk and Musselburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
*Elizabeth Barclay c. 15 Jul 1684, Inveresk and Musselburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
*Margaret Robison c. 20 Apr 1686, Inveresk and Musselburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
*George Barclay c. 20 Sep 1687, Inveresk and Musselburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
*Robert Barclay c. 22 Jun 1689, Inveresk and Musselburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

This Elspeth Balvaird appears to be the Elspeth Balvaird, daughter of John Balvaird & Margaret Bruce, c. 3 Apr 1664, Liberton, Midlothian, Scotland.

There was also a John Barclay who married Elspeth Waitt on 16 Sep 1688 at Newburgh, Fife, Scotland.

In the book 'A history of the Barclay family, with full pedigree from 1066 to 1924', it only says, "In 1731 Robert wrote a long letter in connection with his genealogical research to his brother David of Cheapside. He had been working on the family history and stated that he had found " nine distinct Familys of the name of Barclay, none of whom, as I have ever heard, would own themselves to be come of others. Viz : Barclay of Innerkeller, Barclay of Balvaird, Barclay of Pierston, Barclay of Colairnie, Barclay of Kilburnie, Barclay of Brechin, Barclay of Garthie, Barclay of
Towie, and lastly Barclay of Urie, formerly Mathers."

There is no genealogy of Barclay of Balvaird included.

According to the [http://www.thepeerage.com/p47777.htm#i477762 Peerage], there was a Margaret Barclay, daughter of a James Barclay of Balvaird, who married Sir Andrew Murray. Their son died in 1550, so they lived at least 100 years before these other Margaret Barclays.

It is not clear here why it is thought that John Barclay died in Nairn. Nairn is very far north of Midlothian and Kilwinning. What connects him to Nairn?

There is an old internet wives' tale that says:
1st gen: William de Ross; m. Euphemia de Baliol
2nd gen: Hugh Ross; m. Margaret Graham, d/o David Graham
3rd gen: Hugh Ross, b. 1680, Nairn, Nairnshire, Scotland, d. 1740, North Carolina; m. Margaret DeBarclay, b. 1685, Scotland, d. 1743, North Carolina.

So, every christening/baptism record for a Margaret Barclay circa 1685 available on the internet today has been attached to a Margaret Barclay who married a Hugh Ross. And that Hugh Ross is usually associated with Nairnshire. Is this maybe where Nairn came from?

This family is actually that of Hugh Ross, 1st of Balnagowen who died circa 1371. He was the son of Hugh Ross & Margaret Graham, who was the son of William & Euphemia. There was no Hugh Ross born in Nairn who married a Margaret Barclay and died in North Carolina in the 1740s.

The Hugh Ross that often gets attached to this fictional Margaret Barclay as her husband is Hugh Ross, in Balblair, son of Capt. David Ross, 2nd Laird of Balblair. There is only one mention of this Hugh Ross in any records, though. It is a disposition his father wrote in 1707 in which Hugh is listed as his 3rd lawful son. There is no evidence of him before or after that date. And no evidence that he married. Either way, that Hugh Ross lived at Balblair in the parish of Fearn. This was across the firth from Nairn in Nairnshire. Nairn is historically the home of Rose of Kilravock descendants, not Ross of Balnagown descendants. Balblair was also very far north of both Midlothian and Kilwinning. There don't seem to be any records that indicate that Hugh from Balblair would have any reason to be acquainted with Barclay families from either of these other areas.

So, it seems that the Margaret Barclay who was the last of Balvairds lived in the mid 1500s.

The John Barclay born in Kilwinning was born in 1690, not 1660.

A different John Barclay lived at Gooseloan, near Kilwinning. He had a daughter Margaret baptized in 1685.

A different John Barclay & his wife, Elspeth Balvaird, lived in Midlothian. They had a daughter Margaret baptized in 1686.

None of these Margaret Barclays married a Hugh Ross who lived in the late 1600s, early 1700s.

Disconnected Margaret Robison as wife of Hugh Ross, in Balblair

Thank you for the explanation, Private User

Thanks Erica Howton :)

Hi Margaret Robison. Two quick questions.

First, back to this Margaret Barclay. The Margaret Barclay who was baptized in Midlothian is not the same the Margaret Barclay who married Andrew Robinson. Margaret Barclay who married Andrew Robinson was the daughter of John Barclay of Gooseloan. I feel like John of Gooseloan had his own profile at one point. I'm not sure if he got merged into John who married Elspeth Balvaird. I don't have the power to unmerge people. Maybe this is something you can do?

Also.... I wonder if you know where to find the list of GEDCOMs that a user has uploaded. I got a message today saying that a GEDCOM I uploaded in 2020 had finally been processed. I can see the list of GEDCOMs that have completed importing. But I'm wondering where the list is of GEDCOMs I've uploaded that haven't started importing yet? Now that I understand the Geni more, I'd rather not have any of those import. It's too hard to deal with any duplicates that might be created. I'd rather just delete any uploaded GEDCOMs before they're processed. Especially if it's still working on GEDCOMs that are 2 years old. But I can't find where I could do that.

Thanks!!

I’m not sure where you can turn off Gedcoms. I’ll ask.

I think I finally got John Barclay in Gooslone clear - please check.

You can manage GEDCOM imports from your GEDCOM page https://www.geni.com/gedcom

Think you, Job Waterreus

Here’s the help page. Pressing undo next to the item deletes that import.

https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/360018818713-Can-I-undo-a-G...

Hi Erica Howton. Thanks for figuring out the John Barclay's. Sorry I didn't reply sooner. I'm not on Geni very often.

John Barclay in Gooslone' relationships look right. I think there's an issue with his birth date, though. The John Barclay born in Dec 7th was born in 1690, not 1660.

From ScotlandsPeople:
Surname Forename Parents/Other details Gender Birth Date Parish Number Ref Parish
BARCLAY JOHN JOHN BARCLAY/JEAN JAMISON FR85 (FR85) M 07/12/1690 599 10 / 72 KILWINNING

I think Peter Barclay, if he was born/baptized in Kilbirnie, is more likely related to John Barclay in Gooslone.

Also, the media with the Balvairds listed doesn't apply to him. It's the other John Barclay who married a Balvaird. But I'm not sure how they connect to the Barclays of Balvaird. I looked through all 3 volumes of 'A history of the Barclay family' and I can't find anything on the Barclays of Balvaird.

https://archive.org/search?query=creator%3A%22Barclay%2C+Charles+Wr...

Thanks again!

Private User - updated.

Showing all 10 posts

Create a free account or login to participate in this discussion