Robert Napier of Blackyards - Updates / corrections

Started by Erica Howton on Friday, April 21, 2023
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Farryl Essig Writes:

I believe there are some errors in this profile and the subsequent generations. I am a descendant of Dr. Patrick Napier, the first Napier emigrant to the American Colonies from this line. I have documentation from a Book entitled, " The Book of Dumbartonshire:A history of Parishes, burghs and Counties.......I believe this Robert is stated as born circa in 1558 while the other children are listed as more than a decade later. Also, Robert is listed as Robert Mungo Napier in other sources and he went on to be a Burgess representing Dumbarton in London. I have other sources that might also make clarification to this "Robert Napier" profile. Please contact me so we can work on getting my ancestor's information corrected.

Hi Erica, I am a member of two facebook groups that connect to the Napier family. One is Clan Napier in North America and the other is more specific, titled Descendants of Dr. Patrick Napier (1634-1669) and Elizabeth Booth. These two groups have extensive files that reflex numerous years of study and published information regarding the Napier Family. I believe one can join without a member's invitation. You may want to join to peruse these files for verification. I have downloaded some file in pdf format but don't see any way to share them via this platform. I do know that Robert Napier died young and left his heir (another Patrick) under the care of his brother, Mungo. Some refer to him as Robert Mungo. I have also seen a source that indicates Patrick of Blackyards or Blackthrids had two sons listed as Robert. According to information I have seen, Patrick of Blackyards was married first to Elizabeth Stewart from whom he acquired the property of "Blackyards" and indicates that she was the mother of Robert and more of Patrick's children.

Erica....this excerpt information is from the updated Napier's Official history based on much research and documentation by the group expert , Penny Myers of the fb group, Descendants of Dr. Patrick Napier 1634-1669 and Elizabeth Booth.

“Patrick Napier of Blackyards: Patrick is the second born son of John Napier and his wife
Margaret Sempil. Patrick was probably born at Kilmahew Castle. The latest new information is
very important because it makes an important change in our line of descent. In his book, John
Hawkins Napier III only mentioned one wife for Patrick Napier of Blackyards and that was
Katherine Noble. This is in error and very important because it is now known that Katherine was
the second wife of Patrick and also she was NOT the mother of Mungo. John Hawkins Napier III
also sometimes called Blackyards by the name of Blackthirds and this was also in error. There
was no such property known as Blackthirds as far as I have been able to determine. But there
was Blackyards!
The first wife of Patrick Napier was named Elizabeth Stewart. She was the daughter and only heir
of Michael Stewart and his wife Janet Maxwell. She inherited a house located on Rottenrow in
Glasgow and property from her grandfather Mathew Stewart who was a canon of Glasgow. Her
father Michael was the owner of the property of Blackyards and it was Elizabeth Stewart who
brought this property of Blackyards to her marriage with Patrick Napier, as his first wife. Michael
Stewart was the only child of his father Mathew Stewart and Marediane Mowat. (pronounced
Mary Diane) See the files in facebook for sources and copies of actual documents pertaining to the marriage and property of Elizabeth. Her Stewart line descends from the Stewart family of Mingoand can be traced back to the first kings and queens of Scotland and also to the very interesting family of Turnbull. If you can, imagine having an ancestor grandfather whose name was John Turnbull, but they called him in actual documents “Out With The Sword”. Hmmm. Wonder why and how he got this name?? It is a very large and interesting history indeed and it is Elizabeth Stewart Napier’s family who founded the college at Glasgow of which Mathew Stewart was a graduate and also a large portion of Glasgow Cathedral where many of her Stewart grandfathers are buried. You will learn why she named a son, Mungo.
One very important thing to note is that Elizabeth was the mother of three sons, Robert
Napier of Blackyards, the oldest and the other son was named Mungo and the youngest son
George. Our line descends from the son Mungo. Elizabeth and Patrick had one daughter named Margaret. Elizabeth died about January 1557 when her Blackyards property was transferred legally to her oldest son Robert Napier who was later known as Robert of Blackyards. Patrick Napier of Blackyards married 2nd to Katherine Noble, the daughter of James Noble who was the son of Robert Noble. Patrick and Katherine had some children, among them a son James, a son named John and a daughter Katherine. Patrick died in December 1585 and he also left a testament/will which has been transcribed and can be found in the files here on facebook. It is interesting to note that in his will, Patrick named John Napier, Lord of Merchiston (the same John who was of math fame, inventor of Logarithms ) as one of theoverseers of his estate. He also asked Patrick Napier, his nephew and namesake who was the Laird of Kilmahew to “see” to his “bairns”, meaning children. It is important to note that our line does NOT descend from Katherine Noble, but from Elizabeth Stewart. Another error in the book of John Hawkins Napier III is that he listed Robert Noble as the father of Katherine Noble and this is not correct, Robert’s death is recorded in actual records and his son James was the heir and father of Katherine, which is probably why Katherine and Patrick Napier named a son James. The very interesting information regarding Patrick Napier of Blackyards is the fact that he served as a baile of Dumbarton, especially appointed by the King regent in 1573.
King James VI & I of Scotland and England’s regent appointed Patrick Napier of Blackyards as bailie of Dumbarton in February 1573 because they wanted “men of intelligence” and whom they could trust to serve in this very turbulent area. This is not noted in the book of John Hawkins Napier III but should be noted and added to the Napier history because this was a very important position and also shows that Patrick Napier of Blackyards was a notable man and was known by and associated with the royal family. This may be one of the reasons why his children (maybe Mungo) and grandchildren were in service to the King.

3. Mungo Napier, son of Patrick Napier of Blackyards and his first wife Elizabeth Stewart. New
and latest information is that he was the son of Patrick Napier and his first wife Elizabeth
Stewart and NOT the son of Katherine Noble. Mungo Napier was signing a document and he
was listed as a burgess in Edinburg the year 1573 upon the signature and witness of his uncle
Charles Napier (younger brother of Patrick Napier of Blackyards) and they were all in service to
Archibald Napier of Merchiston. This date would indicate that Mungo was age twenty one or
older and was born before January 1557, the proven death date of his mother Elizabeth.
Therefore a son of Patrick and his wife Elizabeth Stewart. This document of the Blackyards
transfer and the date of Elizabeth’s death was notarized in Glasgow. There are strong indications that Mungo Napier may have in his later life been a royal cloth maker, according to the wording of the death listing of his son namesake Mungo who was buried in England in 1617, that and other factors which should not be ignored (read my text file). Records have been located in service as a baile of Dumbarton, especially appointed by the King regent in 1573. King James VI & I of Scotland and England’s regent appointed Patrick Napier of Blackyards as bailie of Dumbarton in February 1573 because they wanted “men of intelligence” and whom they could trust to serve in this very turbulent area. This is not noted in the book of John Hawkins Napier III but should be noted and added to the Napier history because this was a very important position and also shows that Patrick Napier of Blackyards was a notable man and was known by and associated with the royal family. This may be one of the reasons why his children (maybe Mungo) and grandchildren were in service to the King.

In his book, John Hawkins Napier III stated that Mungo disappeared from the records of
Scotland after 1603 after a land transaction with his brother George. John also has the birth dates in error for many of these people. This 1603 date is in error because Mungo is found to be living in Scotland being “horned” (sued for non-payment of rent …what we call taxes here) in Mylnetoun, Scotland in 1607 & 1608. For this reason, I have listed that Mungo’s son Patrick was most probably born in Scotland, especially since Patrick returned there later in 1633 to become a burgess in (by) right of his father Mungo. I believe that most likely, Patrick was born before 1608, and closer to 1600 – 1602 and this is also based upon the known birth year of Patrick’s first child 1626. Do the math. We do know that Mungo did reside in London, England for a time, most probably in service to the king. Clues and hints lead to believe that he may have been in the cloth making business, which would have been a very reputable and prospering business if you were in service to the royal family, there were untold amounts of cloth to be made for not only the royal family, but the servants and soldiers and guards of the royal family. Mungo may have made a trip to England with his “kinsman” Archibald Napier who was in fact traveling with and in service to the newly crowned King in 1603. We don’t know for sure if Mungo traveled to England at this time or not. But, if so, Mungo was back in Scotland by 1607. Also, it may be that Archibald Napier (and this is the Archibald Napier who was the son of John Napier of math fame, the same John who was named as overseer in Patrick Napier of Blackyard’s testament) helped Mungo, if not his son Patrick obtain a place in service to the King because we do know that this Archibald was in service to the King and did travel with him to London in 1603. The death date for Mungo is not known, but I suspect it was in the year 1633, more about that in the notes for his son Patrick Napier, barber to King Charles I. Dr. Bruce Durie who lives in
Scotland related to me that both father and son could be a burgess at the same time, so bear in
mind that the date 1633 does not mean that Mungo Napier was dead. But it is a clue. And I’m not so sure that he may or may not have been the same person as the Alexander Napier who was in charge of the kings silver plate and vessels who died in the ship wreck. But, more likely than not, this Alexander could have been a son of Mungo. In fact, many people have mistakenly listed that Mungo Napier is buried in London. There is no proof of this. His son and namesake Mungo Napier was buried there in 1617. I tend to believe that Mungo Napier was buried in the place of his birth, Scotland, the same place he was listed as a burgess. After all, the last of the known and found records for Mungo do show him living in Edinburgh, Scotland in the 1620’s with his wife Marion Creighton and having children. "

"I have many more records, literally thousands of documents and tons of
books downloaded and stored onto a jump drive (several jump drives for sake of back up, never know about when one might fail…" Penny Myers

Hi Farryl Essig

Congratulations on your hard work. Our challenge here is to organize the data and profiles in simple to understand ways, and to make the corrections needed.

Let me start by tagging the first changes to be made:

Patrick Napier of Blackyards, Tutor of Kilmahew & Katherine Noble

We can copy / paste from your discussion above, but we need to take it profile by profile.

You can upload PDF documents to profiles.

https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/229705367-How-can-I-add-a-D...

https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/229705327-How-To-Make-Docum...

Farryl Essig

I’m wondering if we should make a geni project for this. It’s a more permanent solution for sharing research findings used for updating the tree. And maybe a little more scope: Ancestry of Dr. Patrick Napier? Something like that?

Here’s his profile:

Dr. Patrick ‘the Chirugeon’ Napier, Jr

This is about geni projects:

https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/229705827-What-is-a-Project-

https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/229705947-How-do-I-create-a...

https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/229705887-How-can-I-add-pro...

https://www.geni.com/projects

A very early project as an example.

https://www.geni.com/projects/Brewster-Family/118

Hi Erica, I am open to participating in the creation of a project to rectify any errors that exist in the Napier line and branches. I have also sent a request to Penny T. Myers, who is our group's expert to see if she would be open to be a participant in this process. I haven't heard back from her yet, but will share with you her level of interest in this process. Thank you for your openness to moving in a direction that will help to develop an accurate progression of the Napier line and the supporting information.

I am sorry I forgot to mention Greg Napier as a potential partner in the correction process. He is also one of the experts in our fb Group and very knowledgeable of the Napier Family in America.

Great! You guys are the experts, and the more hands on you are, the better. Geni volunteer curators such as I are here to facilitate and troubleshot, maybe question, but it’s your tree.

Erica, I am sorry to trouble you again and being difficult about my ancestors profile's errors. I am very frustrated that I don't have enough knowledge or authority of this site to correct what I know is true as far as my ancestry goes. There are two Patrick Napier profiles which is adding to the confusion. I know that Patrick Napier of Blackyards was a son of John Napier and Margaret Sempill. I know that there was only one son named Patrick. (Another Patrick Napier profile has a second Patrick that has him having the same parents as Patrick of Blackyards but married to Elizabeth Noble.) I know that Patrick Napier of Blackyards was first married first to Elizabeth Stewart, by whom the property of Blackyards came into his possession and how began being known as "of Blackyards." The marriage occurred prior to 1551 and after Elizabeth's death he married Katherine Noble. His son Mungo Napier is listed as born circa 1579....which must make Mungo, Patrick of Blackyards' by Katherine Noble. Mungo does not appear as Patrick of Blackyards as an offspring on the Patrick of Blackyards profile. Adding him to that profile would solve the problem of him not existing or being identified incorrectly on an assumed duplicate profile.......what can I do to either become a manager for my ancestors' profiles to make the corrections or petition to have them changed. The second Patrick profile I noticed that has been inactive for a good while. this is the one that has John and Margaret having two sons named patrick.

Farryl Essig - I figured it out, and sent you a manager request for Patrick Napier of Blackyards, Tutor of Kilmahew I merged the duplicate Patrick’s and moved Mungo Napier, Burgess of Dumbarton to son of Katherine Noble

I’m not a manager of those profiles, so can’t add you, but you should be able to edit and add citations and so on.

Erica Howton, Thank you so much for your help. It was so frustrating to have an ancestor trapped in limbo, knowing the correct info but not able to help him out of the alternate universe!

It was just a matter of me getting clear on how exactly to help. Sorry for the delay!

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