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Jakob Neumann - Problems with this profile

Started by Haakon Chevalier on Thursday, June 8, 2023
Problem with this page?

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There is a big problem with this profile. It goes way beyond the first problem, mentioned in the note, "no record found, birth date like brother Moritz". This is significant since the birth records have survived for this place and time,

The second problem is that not only is there a birth record of each of the sons of Jacob Neumann (1801 - before 1890) and Theresia Basch, but each of the birth specifies which son each one is, as First Son, Second Son, etc. (in German). There is no gap where Jacob Jr. could fit in.

A third problem is that Ashkenazi Jews virtually never named a son with the same name as the father. Also, children were usually named after someone who was deceased.

So, unless there is some other evidence to the contrary, it is almost impossible that this Jakob Neumann b. 1942 could be the son of Jakob Neumann b. 1801.

Possibly DNA connections, as well as more careful record searches, can throw some light on this.

I just noticed this note. I don't knowwhy you seem so aggressively concerned about this. From a hand-written tree written in the 1930s by the father of a distant cousin of mine living in Vienna, as well as from his daughters' birth and marriage records, Jakob Moritz Neumann was my gggf. Two sons from this family, including Jakob and his brother Karl were surnamed Basch because the parents were not legally married (but presumably were religiously married before their oldest sons were born). In this family tree, the father is also named Jakob. 30 years ago I was surprised that the father was named Jakob and one of his sons (my direct ancestor) who seems to have been born as Moritz later used the name Jakob Moritz. And the birthdate in the handwritten tree was 1842, although Moritz is 1850.

I should mention that my gggf Jakob (possibly originally named Mortiz; born Basch) Neumann's family and his brother's Karl (born Basch) Neumann family knew each other in Vienna and for years after coming to the States. I don't know why Moritz appears to have later gone by "Jakob". Also, the birthyear in the profile for my "Jakob Moritz" and "Moritz" was never entered as 1942, it was 1842.

I should also mention - the handwritten family tree my cousin in Vienna had says that Jakob Moritz Neumann was born in Zahrobi, which is near Tisov. The other siblings in this family were born and/or recorded in Tisov? I cannot find records from Zahrobi at the Czech National archives, still looking where they would've been recorded if not nearby in Tisov.

I'm looking at the Kasejovice birth index right now in the Czech Archives; this 1844 born son is listed as Jakob son of Jakob Neumann and Therese Bosch, but in a different color ink "Jakob" is later crossed out and replaced with "Moritz". The problem then is that there's another son Moritz born to this couple in 1850. I'm trying to find if the first Jakob/Moritz died and then they named a later son Moritz. Despite confusion about these two sons, I know one is my gggf and these are the same group of siblings, all children of Jakob Neumann and Therese Bosch.

And I found the Kasejovice 1899 marriage record of my gggm, Therese Neumann married to Moses Schirok. Therese's father is listed on the record as Jakob Neumann. I also re-visitied the Page of Testimony that my aunt wrote (daughter of Therese Neumann-Schirok) and she instead wrote that Therese's father was named Moses (AKA Moritz). I don't know why, but both are consistent with what I originally learned that he went by "Jakob Moritz" Neumann. As for this family not naming children after living fathers, one of the elder Jakob Neumann's other sons (named Wilhelm in the Kasejovice birth records) also named his own son Wilhelm/William who was born after they emigrated to the States.

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