Locating more info on Sweer van Velson

Private User

7/1/2023 at 9:27 PM

This profile was for the most part empty no sources, bio, etc. when I came across it. He was a nobody but I had a hunch he was somebody.
I found quite a few sources and pieced them together. He was prominent citizen. A landholder, politician and prominent businessman
who seemed to have a lot of clout in his circle. I think there is more to be found on him. I have another hunch info on his life with his previous wife and
children is available. If anyone is interested in looking feel free to do so.

Sweer Theunisen van Velson

thanks Robert Moon

Erica Howton C

7/2/2023 at 9:44 PM

This article is less about him than his wife:

http://www.amherstisland.on.ca/Beacon/Beacon_July_2006.pdf

Private User

7/13/2023 at 11:40 AM

Erica Howton

Thank You

Alex Moes C

7/14/2023 at 9:14 PM

from https://albany.nygenweb.net/gene.htm

It was not uncommon for the same individual to have two or more surnames and to use them indifferently. Jan Barentse Wemp [Wemple] was sometimes called Poest; he had a mill on the Poesten-kil which perhaps derived its name from him rather than from the Dutch word poesten. After his death in 1663 his widow Maritie Myndertse married Sweer Teunise. He had two surnames, Van Velsen and Van Westbroeck.

So in actuality his name was Sweer Teuniszoon and he was variously described as from Velsen and from Westbroek. Which strikes me as odd given they are in different provinces and near 50 miles apart (almost half the country!)

Alex Moes C

7/14/2023 at 9:19 PM

Westbroek and Hilversum on the other hand are just a few miles apart physically.
www.geni.com/media/proxy?media_id=6000000196333029875&size=large

So why is he using the toponym Van Velsen?

Private User

7/15/2023 at 1:37 PM

Alex Moes

Thanks for that link.

It is site specific. In at least two of the sources the names of other Dutch settlers are mentioned as being known by more than one name. He is referred to mostly as van Velson which proved the best route to travel for research. Westbroeck was the sight were his original mill was located.

Alex Moes C

7/15/2023 at 7:37 PM

So the Westbroeck referenced is in NY not NL? Do you know the Velson that is being referred to?

Alex Moes C

7/15/2023 at 8:22 PM

Maritie Myndertse profile contains a lot of inconsistencies that may or may not reflect nuggets of truth or may just be flotsam and jetsam.

www.geni.com/media/proxy?media_id=6000000196357234873&size=large

Currently her profile has the patronym Myndertse but neither of her husbands nor her father is named Myndert nor do any of those three have the patronym Myndertse.

The name Van Inveren presents an interesting possibility that somehow this woman has been conflated with the family of Myndert Fredericksen Van Iveren , I would suggest him as her father except that they are basically the same age.
My impression that the data in Maritie Myndertse's profile is corrupted by confusion with Myndert Fredericksen van Iveren is strengthened by the Geni-father of Maritie being "Frederick Myndertse Van Inveren" Frederick Myndertse Van Inveren born 1601 (in a place that didn't exist in that period) and dying in 1670 (in the same place which didn't exist then either!).

For what it is worth Myndert Fredericksen van Iveren's father can't have been born in Everinghe, Zealand either due to that village having been abandoned to the sea in 1530.
Further, it strikes me as odd that given Myndert was a staunch Lutheran (with his brother in NA he went against the DRC in order to found the first Lutheran church) he would come from Zealand?

PS back to Maritie's profile, Zealand, Holland and Noord-Brabant are three different provinces in the Netherlands so the birth location for Maritie of "Iveren, Zealand, Holland, Reusel-de Mierden, Noord-Brabant, Netherlands" is just embarrassing gibberish. I have edited to "Europe" as that it the only justifiable location supported by the evidence to hand.

Alex Moes C

7/15/2023 at 9:01 PM

So why/where does the name Van Inveren attach itself to Maritie Myndertse
What supports her parents being Frederick Myndertse Van Inveren and Cathlyn Burchard How can it be reconciled that they both died in 1670 but one in a village that didn't exist and the other in a totally different province?

Private User

7/17/2023 at 12:14 PM

When I came across this line it was even more of a mess.

Given my knowledge Ive done the best I could to clear it up.

As a curator I know you can see who made what changes and when.

I dont have the extensive knowledge of Dutch that you do now that I do. I will definitely consult you in the future. Although I record a lot of names and dates I dont feel that's all this is about.

Although I do have a Dutch line in early New Amsterdam and I and a curator whom I
work with closely were both curious as to names. I would like if you dont mind looking
at that for me at a later date. I have a feeling you could find info on them from across the pond.

Everything ive done on this line is information I found in the Sources then relayed it as such. Have you looked at all of the sources? It explained how and why all of the Dutch settlers had multiple names. I got that information from sources. I did not make them up.

I put all of the 10 sources on Sweer's profile. His profile was pretty incomplete. I had a hunch there was more to be found. I dont know how many empty profiles I built into something significant. If i hadn't sourced further you wouldn't be his second wives curator. Did you read them?

One or more of these sources explained how and why those Dutch settlers were referred to by multiple last names. I think an expert such as yourself would find it enlightening and better explained than by me.

Im not a genealogist but have learned a lot over the last for years I go back and forth trying to prevent mistakes but I make them. Im thorough, I read and research. Im sure you know there are many on Geni who do not. Even worse they dont communicate

If I'm wrong Im wrong I want Geni to work correctly.

--------------------

That being said will you look into this discussion? The managers aren't communicators.

https://www.geni.com/discussions/267831

I would appreciate it.

Private User

7/18/2023 at 8:46 AM

Oh, but you are a genealogist, Robert William Moon-In between Days! You don't have to be a pro to call yourself one.

We all make mistakes at the beginning, and there is always more to learn!

The issue with the multiple names is that conflations are pretty common when researching New Netherland ancestors, and it's not uncommon that contributors to online sites merge profiles without knowing what they are doing. I had to get some merges undone on profiles that I managed with many other managers, some of whom were newbies who just got their manager role even though the profile already had plenty of managers. As a consequence, it's always relevant to ask if there is a reliable source that indicates how one knows that a person had names A, B, and C. Sometimes there is a record that provides direct evidence, but often, it comes from the correlation of indirect evidence, if the person did have those multiple names or aliases. If one of your secondary sources (articles, books, etc.) indicates WHY this is known, then it could be a good idea to mention that this author demonstrated that the various names were for the same person in (name the publication, page number, etc.)

Alex Moes C

7/22/2023 at 2:48 AM

Hi Robert, sorry if I gave offence nothing i wrote was directed at you personally.

The Dutch naming conventions are complicated and can easily result in multiple people being conflated, or the opposite.

Private User

7/24/2023 at 12:13 PM

Alex Moes

I took no offense. I come off as offensive.

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