John Garrett, of New Kent - MIsc. Info

Started by Debbie Gambrell on Thursday, July 6, 2023
Problem with this page?

Participants:

Profiles Mentioned:

Showing 1-30 of 42 posts

According to

https://www.werelate.org/wiki/GARRETT_FAMILY_OF_ISLE_OF_WIGHT,_VA

regarding the John Garrett who married Elizabeth Ware, it shows he was born 1630 but doesn't indicate where he was born. His wife Elizabeth Ware shows as born in Kent, England and theey eventually ended up in New Kent County, Virginia.

JOHN GARRETT III (1630-AFT 1665) m. ELIZABETH WARE (c1638 Kent, England-AFT 1664 New Kent Co., VA)

He is still connected as a son of the John Garrett of PA instaed of this John Garrett as his father:

John Garrett, of Nansemond County

As we've discussed, the geography doesn't fit for the PA connection to the VA line. Furthermore, in reading through the notes on the John Garrett from PA - one of the statements is:

""John Garrett of England & wife Mary did indeed have a son John b. 10 Jan 1631. But this John stayed in England & had 2 children born 1662 & 1666, John & Mary respectively , in Leicestershire, England whose birth are registered. "As I understand only William, s/o John (by the late Ann Dunston) & Mary, went to America & settled in PA.[1] Adding to the above controversy, a couple of different Garretts claiming ancestors from Leicestershire are not matching according to the yDNA project."

If that's the case, IF John Garrett, of Upper Darby is the son of his attached parents, the aforementioned John and wife Mary, he never left England because it's saying that only his brother William came to America. So from a more careful reading of the notes in the profile of

John Garrett, of Upper Darby

there seems to be conflict in his info and connections. If he never came to America, then he certainly can't be the farther

John Garrett, of New Kent

who I believe is the son of

John Garrett, of Nansemond County

based on the genealogy given here

https://www.werelate.org/wiki/GARRETT_FAMILY_OF_ISLE_OF_WIGHT,_VA

Erica Howton

This passage:

"John Garrett of England & wife Mary did indeed have a son John b. 10 Jan 1631. But this John stayed in England & had 2 children born 1662 & 1666, John & Mary respectively , in Leicestershire, England whose birth are registered. "As I understand only William, s/o John (by the late Ann Dunston) & Mary, went to America & settled in PA.[1] Adding to the above controversy, a couple of different Garretts claiming ancestors from Leicestershire are not matching according to the yDNA project."

and some other notes in the profiles indicate where the source of confusion may stem from.

Notice it states that John Garrett of England and his wife Mary had a son born 1/10/1631. That's the date of birth for

John Garrett, of New Kent

who is connected on Geni as the grandson of John and Mary rather than their son. According to the passage, their son John born of that date died in England and only his brother William came to America and settled in Pennsylvania.

Not only that, it mentions the YDNA not matching up and I found another reference to the YDNA conflict mentioned:

"Most Garretts in the DNA study have the number 13 or 14 for DYS393. The Garretts of this line have the number 12 for DYS393. One of the contributors believes his roots are in 1661 Leicestershire. The others show Amelia, Bristol, Buckingham, and Henrico Counties, Virginia as their known origin."

The problem with the Y-DNA projects is that people upload their DNA results and list who they 'believe' is their earliest ancestor on that line, but if they have their tree info wrong...they're going to attribute their Y-DNA results to the wrong ancestor and that's how conflicts as mentioned show up.

Also, the genealogy I've been using doesn't show Nannie Harrison as a wife of the John who was married to Elizabeth Ware. So I'm wondering if the two men haven't been mingled into one. The John married to Nannie Harrison may be the son of John and Mary who stayed in England. There seems to be enough mix up in how the ones from England connect to the ones in America, whether Pennsylvania or Virginia, and with all the same-name menfolk it would be easy to get some of them mingled.

Additionally, this note is also in the profile notes for

John Garrett, of New Kent

Something to consider--the following statement by James Garrett on 14 Feb 2008:

"John Garrett of New Kent VA md to Elizabeth Ware is NOT s/o John & Mary of Leicestershire, England! This info has been circulated throughout websites & forums without proof. John Garrett of New Kent VA is reported to have come from Ireland as well as the Ware family.

That's the first reference I've seen to immgiration from Ireland, which doesn't seem to fit the info on the Pennsylvania or Virginia genealogy we have. So that aside, it seems there has long been info in the profiles indicating that some of these connections from England to Pennsylvania are incorrect.

I'm not from John who was married to Mary, as far as I know. I do believe I'm from the John who was married to Elizabeth Ware. And based on these notes from the profiles I'm sharing, it doesn't seem that her husband John was born 1631 since that John is attributed to be the son of the parents of ohn Garrett, of Upper Darby and said to have died in England. I think this may be why no date is given for the birth of ohn Garrett, of Upper Darby in an order to try to make the genealogy fit. If he were John and Mary's son, he would be the one born 1631, not his son, and he would never have come to America, only his brother WIlliam did. The Pennsylania line would have been from Wlliam, not John. Getting the connections sorted correctly for the children of John and Mary would go a long way to solving the confusion in the American connections.

Debbie Gambrell

This is a large change you’re asking for, and it’s not an error correction, it’s an alternative genealogy.

There are multiple managers for many years who ascribe to the current Geni configuration, as does my own research done years ago.

You need more buy in and hopefully more evidence. I am uncomfortable with change without that: your source is conjecture more than proof, IMO.

And if I were to recommend a change, which I don’t so far, I would pay most attention to:

John Garrett of New Kent VA is reported to have come from Ireland as well as the Ware family.

(In other words parents unknown / uncertain).

Start with a “contact manager” mail asking for comments at this discussion. Once we hear more, we’ll go from there.

I 'think' I'm finished going through all the profile notes, Erica. My conclusion is that my ancestor

John Garrett, of New Kent

is still incorrectly connected and that came about because folks erroneously have tried to make tthe Virginia branch of the Garretts descendants of the Psnsylvania branch. They're likely related on the English side somehow and there are so very man John Garretts, it IS confusing. But using the info in the profiles and the geography, they seem to have established separate family lines in America. They can all be the same Y-DNA Garrett line from England but not necessarily from the same branches in America. So the Y-DNA doesn't really help as much as the geography does in America.

By forcing the Virginia branch to be descended from the Pennsylvania group here on Geni, I'm losing part of my lineage unless I create duplicate profiles from John and wife Mary Ware on down, because I believe from that couple on back has inconsistent info and unproven connections for the Virginia branch of Garretts.

Based on what I've read, I don't believe John who was married to Elizabeth Ware was born January 10, 1631 Hosse, Leicestershire, England since information in the profiles says John born that date and place was the son of John and Mary who lived and died in England. Geni has an extra John from John and Mary, making John husband of Elizabeth Ware grandson instead of their son. I think all that has been done to try to make the lines fit, but they don't.

I believe John who married Elizabeth Ware was the son of

John Garrett, of Nansemond County

as shown on

https://www.werelate.org/wiki/GARRETT_FAMILY_OF_ISLE_OF_WIGHT,_VA

I believe the inconsistncies are on the England-to-Pennsylvania line and not the Virginia line that has gotten erronesouly connected to them.

So I'm connecting my Ancestry tree the way I believe is correct and would very much like the Virginia line to be disconnected from the Pennsylvania line on Geni so that the Virginia lineage is correct. Their common connection in England is still yet to be identified.

Erica Howton

based on your comment above:

And if I were to recommend a change, which I don’t so far, I would pay most attention to:

John Garrett of New Kent VA is reported to have come from Ireland as well as the Ware family.

(In other words parents unknown / uncertain)."

IF that info is correct (which I haven't seen a reference to any of the Garrets having come from Ireland before), whether that's true or he was from the Garrett lineage I've been working from...either way, his info and connections are incorrect. Whether his parens are unknown or he's from the line I believe he's from - he's still connected to the wrong parents here on Geni.

You say the geography doesn't fit but you are keeping the Virginia line decended from the Pennsylvania line and disregarding the info about John born January 10, 1631 being the son rather than grandson of John who had a wife named Mary (parents of the John Garrett of Upper Darby) and that their son John never came to America, only their son William did. We're each picking through the info and determining how we interpret it but the fact seems to stand out that the connection between England and Pennsylvania is where the incosistencies begin If John and Mary's son John died in England, he's not the patriarch of the American branch. And their son and their grandson wouldn't have the same dates of birth in any case. So some things don't work in those connections, based on the inconsistencies noted. And none of that has anything to do with the Virginia branch other than whehter you want to say the Virignia branch descended from the John of Upper Darby whose connections are the ones where the iconsistencies are or whether the Virginia branch comes from John Garrett who died in Nansemond VA.

The inconsistencies from England to Pennsyvlania have been pointed out in the past and jus tnothing was done to sort it all out, so they're still there and now the Virginia branch whose geography doesn't fit with them is affecting the lineage of me and others whose trees I can see on Ancetry. So the trees I can see on Ancestry, those folks aren't going to weigh in on this unless they're also on Geni, but not eveyone uses Geni. I have gotten more people than I can count to begin using Geni who had never head of it before I recommended it to them. And not everyone connected to profiles are active or inclined to participate in discusisons.

Charles William Garrett joined us at one point and asked to be kept informed. Charles, if you haven't been reading the more recent posts, please check everything out and share your opinion with us.

I noticed that the common ancestors for Charles William Garrett and I are John Garrett and Elizabeth Ware That has been the case with all the Garrett cousin trees I've reviewed in my Ancestry matches. We all consistently share that couple as our common ancestors.

The problem for me and others now is that the tree is split with the England o Virignia genealogy I believe to be true off on it's own and disconnected from the World Tree and John who was married to Elizabeth Ware most likley having been confused (going by date and place of birth) with the son of John and Mary (connected as his grandparents) who died in England and never came to America and that's the crux of the issue needing to be sorted between the two lineages.

Well, Wiki held some possible answers for the Irish connection and whether John was married to both Elziabeth Ware and Nannie Harrison:

"The Wares were from Ireland and there is some evidence that John Garrett, II lived for a while in Ireland before returning with the Wares to England. John Garrett married Elizabeth Ware shortly before, or after, immigrating to Virginia in about 1664. Before marring Elizabeth, he married Nannie Harrison and had a son named William Garrett who was born on February 12, 1661. Perhaps, Nannie died, and baby son William came to Virginia with his father, John and step mother Elizabeth Ware in 1664. Elizabeth’s brother, Nicholas Ware and John Garrett II jointly patented land in New Kent County, VA on the north side of the Mattaponi River on the head branches of the Hartequake"

And what stands out for me in that info is that there is no connection to Pennsylvania mentioned. They came straight from England to Virginia.

This Wiki page makes an attempt to address the confusion on the Garrett lines:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Garrett-8856

There are three major John Garrett controversies and unfortunately a number of Garrett family lines have been crossed and errors perpetuated with many online trees. One line went to Virginia and the other stayed in Pennsylvania.

1) John Garrett, the father, is not the same John Garrett that many lines have coming to America as an indentured servant to his brother in law, John Dunston, in 1631 and returning to England to married a so called "Lady Mary Bible."[6] This John Garrett stayed in England.[1][2]

2) John Garrett (b. 1635), the son, is not the same John Garrett (b. 1631) that came to America and ended up in Virginia marrying Elizabeth Ware. From this Leicestershire Garrett line only William and Thomas are known to have emigrated to America and they stayed in Pennsylvania.[5][7]

3) John Garrett, the son, has two conflicting birth years from the same genealogist and author in different books! Gilbert Cope, one of the best Quaker genealogist in Pennsylvania, wrote in one book published in 1881 that the bible stated that John and Mary had 6 children with John's birth year as 1631.[8] However, 6 years later in a book published in 1887, Cope clearly shows all 7 children (Elizabeth was the missing child) with John's birth year listed as 1635.[5] It is probable that during those 6 years Cope uncovered better transcripts of the bible and/or updated research.

Re: he's still connected to the wrong parents here on Geni.

No, we don’t know that. There’s no smoking gun for his origins.

You need buy in from at least some of the many managers / descendants for changes.

I’ll use contact manager to try and raise mode feedback.

This shows the BIble entries for the children of this John and his wife Mary:

John Garrett, of Upper Darby

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Garrett-8856

John Garrett was born around 1605 in Leicestershire, England.[1] He married a Mary who's maiden name is unknown about 1643.[2]

The old Garrett Bible, printed 1634, that their son William brought with him to Pennsylvania and passed down to William's grandson Nathan, contains the following record:[3][4][5]

1) John, b. 2 Feb 1635 and baptized the 7.
2) Elizabeth, b. 10 Jan 1637 and baptized 14.
3) Dorothy, 30 Apr 1640 baptized the 3 of May.
4) Mari, baptized the 15 May 1642.
5) William, b. 21 of Aug 1643 and baptized the 3 of September.
6) Catren, baptized 26 May 1646.
7) Thomas, baptized 17 May 1649.

John died 30 Aug 1680 in Leicestershire, England.[1][2]

and it indicates that he died in 1680 in England, not in Pennsyvania. It was their son Williiams who came to America according to notes in other profiles. Their son 1) John, b. 2 Feb 1635 and baptized the 7. is the one said in other profiles to have also died in England and is not the same person as:

John Garrett, of New Kent

whose info seems to have been confused iwth the son John, brother of William, who died in England.

My brian is mush right now, but I'm still researching the sources given on Wiki:

https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/garrett/7831/

Part of the confusion comes from misquotations from the book authored in the late 1800s by Gilbert Cope and J. Smith Futhey titled History of Chester County, Pennsylvania, with Genealogical and Biographical Sketches (Philadelphia: Louse H. Everts, 1995, reprint), 560-561.

The Historical Society of Pennsylvania houses his notes on the Garrett/Garat family. It would be well worthwhile to the family for someone to go study and publish an abstract of his notes.

Cope was a respected and distinguished Quaker genealogist. His wife was a Garrett/Garat, hence his interest. The biographical sketches included JOHN GARAT born ca 1605 in Leicestershire Co., England and died 30 August 1680 IN ENGLAND.

He married Mary (UNK) born ca 1612 in England and died ca 1660 in England.NOWHERE DID COPE GIVE MARY'S SURNAME AS BIBLE. It is my firm belief that because dates and names were found in a Bible, Mary was, over the years,mistakenly given this erroneous last name.

More serious to researchers is the fact that a John Garat shown many times as a son of the above John & Mary born ca 1631, migrated from England. Baptismal records in Harby, Leicestershire Co., Eng. show John and Mary and children were all living in England and that the children were baptized there. Therefore Jhn born 1605 could not have been the immigrant.

- - -
the dates don't all match, but the gist of it is that the son named John of parents John and Mary in England is not the immigrant to America.

Sorry, I didn't get everything into what I copied and pasted from that last link shared. It goes on to state:

In the opinion of other historians son John Garat born 1631 was the immigrant who estb. a Garret line in VA and married Elizabeth Ware. However, this contradicts the DOCUMENTED BIRTH DATE OF JOHN GARRETT by Fisher in her bookGarrett, Catlett, Ware and Related Families (Cullman, AL: Gregath Co., 1989), 13.

Cope gave no information on John Garrett 1631. Whether he remained in England or came to the colonies is not documented. However William Garat and Thomas Garat sons of John & Mary came to Chester Co., PA. As opinion if John Garat 1631 had come with his brothers, Cope would have probably known about him.

What I got from that info is that the respected Quaker genealogist Cope did not know of or recognize John Garrett who married Elizabeth Ware as part of the Garrett family who came to America. He only knew of Mary and John's sons William and Thomas having done so. This matches the info about Mary and John's son John never having come to America because he lived and died in England and clearly indicates that the husband of Elizabeth Ware was part of that family group, Cope would probably have known about him. Instead, that John is seen as a separate branch and as the patriarch of the Virginia branch of Garretts. His ommission from Cope's knowledge of the England-to-Pennsylvania family group stands out, even to the author of the info on that link.

https://www.geraldini.com/documenti/before-america/Before-America-P...

states that John Garrett who came to America and died in 1680 was aka Lord Garrett:

He, and 7 of his children immigrated to Pennsylvania between 1650 and 1680. It appears that he immigrated before his children did in 1684. Records of Early Philadelphia Residence list all of John’s children (except John II) as well as himself. They were heavily involved in the Quaker movement He died in America on August 31, 1680 in Chester County, Pennsylvania.

- - -

Notice it specifies that all of his children are listed in Records of Early Philadelphia Residence except there is no son named John recorded. That matches with Quaker researcher Cope not mentioning him a son named John and other sources stating that John and Mary's son John died in England, never came to America. All this, in my opinion, points to John Garrett of New Kent not being his son. There doesn't seem to be any historical evidence connecting them as there is with their sons Thomas and William.

But what I've seen in the various sources is some say John died 1680 in England and other say he died 1680 in Pennsylvania. I don't know which is correct, but the source above that states that he immigrated to Pennsylvania and died there also says his wife's maiden name was Bible, which others say is incorrect, that her maiden name is unknown and the 'Bible' reference just refers to her name Mary is in the family Bible, as recorded above and somehow that's how she became known as Mary Bible. But, where her husband John died in England or Pennsylvania is another issue than the one I've been tryiing to solve about the son John attached to them that multiple sources indicate can't be their son since their son John died in England, didn't come to America and wasn't known by the respected Quarker Genealogist Cope who does record their other sons as part of the Pennsylvania Quaker community.

I've seen enough to conclude what I believe is correct recgarind the John who married Elizabeth Ware. I don't think he was the son John of father John who had the wife Mary who is said to have died in England, never came to America, isn't among that Garrett family's Quaker listing, wasn't mentioned by Quaker genealogist Cope, and isn't the progenitor of the VIrginia Garretts. Everything I've seen has convinced me more of that, not less. It's clear there has been question about these connections by many people for a long time. I believe the lienage I'm following resolves the conflict, so I'm sticking with that unless there is something that without question ties John from Virginia to this family. I have not found it.

There has been so much brought forward that I am trying to wrap my mind about the details.

What is wrong with just letting this 'percolate' before anybody jumps to the wrong conclusion? If it were my discussion, I'd beg for a day or two to give us a chance to develop an informed opinion.

Sadly, all I know about that era of the family is what has already been posted to the profile & I have to say that I am clueless of her findings (true or false) because it is all such new & foreign information to me; as I am pretty sure that it will be to most of the co-mgrs. as well.

This is not going to be a quick fix & it should Not be resolved until the truth is determined by facts.

I am grateful to Debbie for all of her findings. It is just going to take us a while to review it all & launch our own review.

Thanks for listening...

Carolyn

Carolyn, there's no rush at all, but the controvery over the family connections seem to have been ongoing for some time both here on Geni and on other sites. I just only recently found more info on my Garrett line and was trying to trace them here on Geni, so all of the prior info that may have been used / discussed on the connections is new territory to me and I've been trying to make sense of it. I shared what I have so you and any others interested can reference the profiles, notes and additional links and read it all for themselves and share whatever conclusions they might come to, whether in agreement with my own conlusion or otherwise.

I've presented the facts I've found and stated what my own conclusion is and why. And I left it at that.

I also stated that while I found multiple bits of info indicating that John of Upper Darby wasn't the father of John of New Kent, I have not found any source indicating that he was other than the fact that they're connected that way here on Geni. Maybe someone else has that info and will share it.

Debbie Gambrell - the original profiles for John Garrett, of Upper Darby & his Family were uploaded to geni in 2008 & included John b 1631 or 1635 as a son of Ann Garrett

I’ve added citations several times over the years. The big study was http://www.geraldini.com/documenti/before-america/Before-America-Pa... and it’s Part 2 predecesor whichever is now off the internet (or I can’t find it).

Another study is:

https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/p/h/e/Christine-J-Phelps/GENE1-0003.h...

3.JOHN3 GARRETT, JR. (JOHN2, WILLIAM1)6 was born Feb 02, 1630/31 in Derby, Leicestershire, England, and died 1706 in New Kent Co., VA.

He married ELIZABETH WARE6 1664 in Leicestershire, England, daughter of PETER WARE and MARY HICKES.She was born Feb 13, 1634/35 in Dublin, Ireland7, and died Abt. 1689 in New Kent Co., VA.

Notes for JOHN GARRETT, JR.:

The following information is from the home page of Alice Marie (Cox) Garrett:

John Garrett and his brother-in-law, Nicholas Ware, patented 386 acres on the north side of the Mattapony River, on the head branches of Hartequack Swamp on 8/21/1665, patent 5, p. 185.
The Ocaneechee's, decimated by disease and massacres, were peaceful by the early 1660's.

More About JOHN GARRETT, JR.:
Christening: Feb 07, 1634/35, Derby, Leicestershire, England

Notes for ELIZABETH WARE:

The following information is from the home page of Alice Marie (Cox) Garrett:

The Ware family moved to New Kent CO., by traveling up the York River to the mouth of the Mattepony, continuing past the peaceful Mattaponi Indians, to the narrows of the Mattapony near Poplar Landing.

Stratton-Major Parish, established 1664 shows the Ware's as Vestrymen during this time.

More About JOHN GARRETT and ELIZABETH WARE:
Marriage: 1664, Leicestershire, England

Children of JOHN GARRETT and ELIZABETH WARE are:

  • i. MARY4 GARRETT.
  • 5. ii. WILLIAM GARRETT, b. Feb 12, 1661/62, Derby, Leicestershire, England.
  • 6. iii. THOMAS GARRETT, b. Abt. 1666, New Kent Co., VA; d. Bet. 1715 - 1716.
  • 7. iv. JOHN GARRETT III, b. 1675, New Kent Co., VA; d. 1728, Stafford Co., VA.
  • v. NICHOLAS GARRETT, b. Abt. 1676, Leicestershire, England.
  • 8. vi. ELIZABETH GARRETT, b. 1678, King & Queen Co., VA.
  • vii. ROBERT GARRETT, b. 1680, New Kent Co., VA.

(That’s not a new citation by any means, it’s probably the first I found).

This site never opens for me, just shows me tabs that end up giving me the option to create a tree on the site. It ends up connecting to My Heritage but never takes me to whatever family line indicated. Bottom line - I can't see that pdf on the Garrett family.

Erica, the link you shared:

https://www.geraldini.com/documenti/before-america/Before-America-P...

is the one referenced on Wiki that has the error regarding Mary Bible and where I got the clarification on the John married to both Nannie Harrison and Elizabeth Ware. It's also the site where I quoted that John Garrett who married Elizabeth Ware may have been in Ireland for a while but returned to England before coming to America.

It leaves a good bit out that other sites include, like most of the info on the Wiki page that sons William and Thomas are recorded in the Pennesylvania Quaker records but the brother John who didn't come to America, etc. Instead of going into any of that or referencing that the Quaker genealogist Cope doesn't mention that brother John being in the records, it just cuts the comment down to:

"He, and 7 of his children immigrated to Pennsylvania between 1650 and 1680. It appears that he immigrated before his children did in 1684. Records of Early Philadelphia Residence list all of John’s children (except John II) as well as himself." but even there it says 'except John'.

The Wiki page mentions:

" John Garrett, the son, has two conflicting birth years from the same genealogist and author in different books! Gilbert Cope, one of the best Quaker genealogist in Pennsylvania, wrote in one book published in 1881 that the bible stated that John and Mary had 6 children with John's birth year as 1631.[8] However, 6 years later in a book published in 1887, Cope clearly shows all 7 children (Elizabeth was the missing child) with John's birth year listed as 1635.[5] It is probable that during those 6 years Cope uncovered better transcripts of the bible and/or updated research."

Regardless of what differs, they seem to be in agreement that John and wife Mary's son John didn't come to America with the rest of the family.

John I's son in the link you shared is the one where it states:

"His oldest child was John Garrett, II was born on February 2, 1635 in Leicestershire, England, which is north of London. The records show that he was knighted on February 26, 1615; however if that is true, he was only 20 years old"

He is the all the info agrees stayed in England, didn't come to America, died in England. But then the author of that PDF goes on to state that John II did come to America but went to Virginia.

My thoughts on the info in the PDF is the author got a lot right but also has some mistakes, like Mary 'Bible'. But I also think the author couldn't sort out the various John Garretts any better than anyone else and this may be the very source that has been copied that keeps them confused - first stating that all of John I's children came to America excpet John II but then going on to state that John II did come to America. I think the author has two Johns confused right there. And the PDF doesn't show any sources for any of the info. I see nothing to compel me to trust the author of the PDF over the genealogy I've been working from and the info on Wiki. The latter two used together make even more sense of the genealogy of I've been working with. The details on the Wiki page confirm the long-standing confusion, states plainly (as does the PDF) that John I's son John stayed in England. All sources make one thing clear - the John Garrett who began the Virginia line of Garretts was never in Pennsylvania and there are no sources that document him as part of their family. My take on the PDF is that the author was trying, like everyone else has, to fit together the various John Garretts and make sense of their connections. The only things all agree on are that John I and wife Mary had a son John II who did not join the family in Pennsylvania, who was not listed in the Pennsylvania Quaker records and that somes sites say he died in England while others make him out to be the John Garrett who immigrated to Virginia.

This paragraph in the PDF is really unclear to me:

"His oldest child was John Garrett, II was born on February 2, 1635 in Leicestershire, England, which is north of London. The records show that he was knighted on February 26, 1615; however if that is true, he was only 20 years old."

It's unclear to me whether it's saying John Garrett II born 1635 was knighted in 1615 or if the author got that out of sequence and meant to say that John Garrett I was knighted in 1615. John b. 1635 couldn't possibly have been knighted in 1615. Maybe the 1615 is a typo. But you'd think whichever one was knighted in England would have been the one staying there due to probably having lands and the title there.

The title that says: My Ancestors Immigrate To Pennsylvania and Virginia sums it up. The author was just putting their tree info into PDF form for family history. It's all unsourced and just their conclusion of how their lines connect. Less convincing than the info on Wiki, in my opinion.

We may have to just agree to disagree on this unless some real documention surfaces. For me the PDF referenced is no better than a personal tree that has the same confusion others have on these lines, mainly by disregarding the lack of documentation for John I and Mary's son ever having come to America

My best guess is that the John who married Elizabeth Ware and immgrated to Virginia instead of Pennsylvania is certainly a relative of the others, just not their son. The PDF seems to be trying to make him their son same as other sites who may have just copied the info from that PDF. It's definitely not consistent with the info on the Wikii page regarding Cope's Quaker research or the info on Wiki that states:

John Garrett (b. 1635), the son, is not the same John Garrett (b. 1631) that came to America and ended up in Virginia marrying Elizabeth Ware. From this Leicestershire Garrett line only William and Thomas are known to have emigrated to America and they stayed in Pennsylvania.[5][7]

I'm weary of working on it and I"m sure you're weary of my posts. We each have our own interpretation of the info available online and neither of us seem likely to begin to agree with the other unless more definitive info comes to light.

Thanks for your patience in discussing all this with me. Maybe some of the other profiles managers and descendants will take the time to read through all the many posts and give feedback as to their own conclusions.

There are too many children attached to John so I’m working on that
.

I was able to open one of the references from the Wiki page. Pg. 154 has the info used on the Wiki page from the Garrett family BIble that descendant Nathan Garrett of Upper Darby had.

https://archive.org/details/genealogyofsharp00cope/page/154/mode/2up

the info references sons Thomas and William Garrett, sons of John I and wife Mary and brothers to the John who stayed in England. And just as mentioned on Wik, the son the 'study' referneces by saying "(except)" John is not mentioned in the Pennsylvania records.

There is nothing from the Bible records or the Pennsylvania Quaker records to indicate that the brother John who stayed in England ever came to America. That's the missing piece of the puzzle. It's where people have inferred that the son / brother John who stayed in England 'must' be the same John Garrett who migrated to Virginia, but without a shred of documented proof that they're the same person. Since so much is known about the well-documented progenitors of the Pennsylvania Garretts, you'd think if the progentior of the Virginia branch was part of their immediate family, there would be documentation of that somewhere. Instead, all we have are statements that he stayed in England and died there, per this Garrett descendant (from the Wiki page):

Something to consider--the following statement by James Garrett on 14 Feb 2008:

"John Garrett of New Kent VA md to Elizabeth Ware is NOT s/o John & Mary of Leicestershire, England! This info has been circulated throughout websites & forums without proof. John Garrett of New Kent VA is reported to have come from Ireland as well as the Ware family.

"John Garrett of England & wife Mary did indeed have a son John b. 10 Jan 1631. But this John stayed in England & had 2 children born 1662 & 1666, John & Mary respectively, in Leicestershire, England whose birth are registered.

"As I understand only William, s/o John (by the late Ann Dunston) & Mary, went to America & settled in PA.''[1]

I decided to do one more round of Googling before completely stopping, and look what I found:

https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/garrett/2825/

Primarily compiled from A Book of Garretts 1600 to 1960, compiled by Hester Elizabeth Garrett and printed by Hartley Printing Company, Lansing, Michigan, 1963.

states that the father of John Garrett II immigrated to VA, not Pennsylvania...which is what I've been saying, but the post only lists the wife Nannia Harrison and her children because that's the line her own lineage is from:

John Garrett I born about 1615 in England died about 1679 in Amelia County, VA, married the widow or daughter of John Dunston.Arrived in VA in 1635.The ship’s registry estimated his age as 20.He was indentured to John Dunston and William Mills. There is some indication that he was from London and that his father was Thomas Gerrard/Girrard/Garrard, and a descendant of Sir William Garrard who was Lord Mayor of London in 1555 (not proven).In 1640 he was granted 150 acres on the west branch of the Nansemund River in what was then New Norfolk County, VA.In 1642 he was granted 400 acres at the junction of Indian Creek in VA.John Garrett had three sons:

so that publication puts John II's father in VA instead of Pennaylvania and actually gives the connection to the common Garrett ancestors in England that the Pennsylvania branch also descends from.

Of course, the info from that book I just shared doesn't match on all issues either. The dates are different, the Virginia locations are different. She quoted from the book but didn't give any sources. And I know books, PDFs, and trees can all have errors. Just shared it because it shows there has long been more than one view about John Garrett II who came to America.

I found the link to that book referenced above.

Full text of "A book of Garretts, 1600 to 1960, including notes on the following: Agee [and others]"

https://archive.org/stream/bookofgarretts1600garr/bookofgarretts160...

I find these type 'books' are laid out challenging to follow in some places. It does have sources referenced, if you can follow them.

Showing 1-30 of 42 posts

Create a free account or login to participate in this discussion