Pvt. John P Pool - How many wives? Which proven Y group is THIS Pool?

We have no way of accessing the one Y-DNA upload here on Geni, plus one upload wouldn't be particularly useful to us.

Here's what WikiTree says:

"All researchers do not agree with the parents of this John Pool.- but work continues by several researchers. Our hope is that Information from back vectoring of DNA results can be used as a tool to rule in / out possible connections and ultimately resolve the correct line of descent - multiple results in various present day lines to provide best prediction of haplogroups of ancestors. Several lines can now be confidently ruled out, however we await additional DNA of descendants before we can be confident of this John Pool's ancestry."

So it sounds like they're not confident that Alexander Pool, Jr and Susanna Pool are the correct parents but are going with it as one possibility.

WikiTree also says researchers aren't sure if this John Pool was born in North Carolina, South Carolina, or Virginia.

This is also super important:

"This revision is based on the efforts of several of us (Pool researchers) : we concluded that 'best evidence' is that the 'Edgefield' or 'minuteman' John Pool is the same man who was a son of George Poole, a direct descendant of David Poule/Poole of Elizabeth City County VA. We have, accordingly merged these profiles."

And WikiTree says DNA has definitively ruled out descent from Seth Pettypool or William "The Joiner" Poole.

So: if they're saying "Edgefield John Pool" is a son of George Poole, then should we be changing the parents here?

(Would love to recruit Erica Howton here to see what she thinks about how we proceed.)

LOL, I just noticed there's also a line on WikiTree saying "William Pool may be most common current speculation for the father of Edgefield John Pool."

So now we have three "most likely" fathers. :) That's all unfortunately adding up to a cut to me. Even if we can know from FTDNA who he likely traces back to in the 1600s, it doesn't seem like we can figure out how he's getting there, unless I'm missing something.

I did see the Y-DNA project, but I'm not seeing a direct, step-by-step line of descent there. That's the missing part.

I'm seeing piece after piece saying "we don't know who John's specific father is." That's what I'm trying to clarify. Am I correct that we are not certain who John's parents are? Because that's what WikiTree is saying in their narrative, along with other sources they cite.

I'm just focused on John's parents, not his further ancestry or haplogroup.

This is what Geni is currently showing:

Descendants of David Poole, Huguenot
https://www.geni.com/list/descendants/6000000048071094011#6

• 1. David Poole, Huguenot b. between circa 1585 and circa 1595, Languedoc-Roussillon, Occitanie, France; d. circa 1660, Elizabeth City County, Virginia
• └ +Mary ({unknown}) Poole b. circa 1600, Languedoc-Roussillon, Occitanie, France; d. ?
  • 2. John Poole, Sr b. circa 1630, England or Most likely Elizabeth City, Colony, Virgina; d. circa 1667, Elizabeth City, Colony, Virginia
  • └ +Jane (Boult?) Pool Avera b. 1635, Languedoc-Roussillon, Occitanie, France; d. 1704, Elizabeth City, Virginia, American Colonies
    • 3. Thomas Poole, Sr b. circa 1660, Elizabeth, City, Colony, Virginia; d. circa January 27, 1726, Elizabeth City, Colony, Virginia
    • └ +Elizabeth Jane (Baylis) Pool b. 1657, Elizabeth City, Colony, Virginia; d. 1725
      • 4. Alexander Poole, Sr b. 1685, Elizabeth City, Elizabeth City County, Virginia, English Colonies; d. June 13, 1742, Elizabeth City, Elizabeth City County, Virginia
      • └ +Unknown
        • 5. Alexander Pool, Jr b. circa 1726, Elizabeth City County, Colony of Virginia; d. 1757
        • └ +Susanna (Mitchell) Pool b. 1724, Brunswick County, Virginia, Colonial America; d. 1765
          • 6. Alexander Pool, III b. 1753, Brunswick County, Virginia; d. December 14, 1820
          • 6. James B. “Jacob“ Pool, Sr. b. April 5, 1756, Brunswick, Colony of Virginia; d. July 29, 1839, Laurens County, South Carolina, United States
          • 6. Pvt. John Pool b. circa 1758, South Carolina; d. October 1, 1839, Perry County, Alabama, United States
      • 4. John Pool, sr
      • 4. William Pool
      • 4. Thomas Poole, Jr
      • 4. Middeton Poole
      • 4. Jane Poole
      • 4. Mary (Poole) Pool
    • 3. Ann Poole
    • 3. John Poole, Jr
    • 3. William Poole
  • 2. Jane Poole b. circa 1635, Languedoc France or England
  • 2. Martin Poole b. circa 1635, Languedoc France or VA or England; d. after 1655

"The Y and autosomal work done by descendants who are close cousins have concluded what is seen as the descent there and here on Geni at this present time."

Where can it be seen?

Okay, I think I'm now figuring out where I'm getting lost. This is my fault for being unclear.

Since we're dealing with a man in the historic tree, we really need to see/link to a proper DNA study in order to show a DNA-based connection in the Geni tree. It can't just be "go look at FTDNA" or something like that -- we need to see some kind of written analysis showing the methodology, sample, etc.

If we don't have that, then we need to instead rely on the written records. No primary records exist saying who John Pool's parents were. There are several competing theories for who his father was.

The burden for proof for DNA evidence in the historic tree is really high. If there's a written analysis, I would love to use it and retain this connection in the tree. If there isn't one, I truly think we need to make this cut based on there being no primary sources and too many competing theories.

I am lost as to which profiles are disputed.

I see a detailed argument for descent from David Poole of Elizabeth City in the document attached to https://www.wikitree.com/photo/pdf/Poole-1792

summary from William Pool Jr.:

Pages 1-13 are intended as a condensed Proof of the line of descent of Alexander Pool (Jr). It has been slightly expanded, but the core documents / argument remains unchanged. The "appendix" pages 41-41 provides supplemental evidence, but is NOT represented as proof ( these pages have recently been added in order to provide additional indirect evidence). I think this supplimental information, "as a group" increases the confidence that our "Y Haplogroup G" family of Pool / Pool descend David Poole of Elizabeth City VA

The core issue in this document is the weakest link - namely proving which Alexander Pool was the father of James Pool and Alexander Pool (or to put it another way) who was the father of this Alexander Pool who is shown to be the father of James and Alexander Pool. I find this evidence convincing. I think this is likley "the best we can do until we have additional DNA evidence.

what has changed since 2016?

Erica Howton, the question is: can we say that Pvt. John Pool is the son of Alexander Pool, Jr and Susanna Pool, or do too many questions exist? Put another way: assuming we're accepting that Alexander is the father of the James and Alexander the PDF you linked argues he is, can we ALSO say he is the father of John with far less of an argument being made?

The WikiTree overview, which is current, explains (in a disorganized way) that there are at least three different theories for John's parentage. They are assigning John to Alexander largely because Alexander was in Virginia, which is close to South Carolina, and his year of birth makes him a known descendant of David Poole in the correct approximate age range to be John's father. Is that enough? That feels weak to me, to rely on "Virginia is close to South Carolina [!] and maybe one of them moved."

I am genuinely not trying to be a pain. I am trying to understand and make sure we get this right. DNA arguments in the 18th C. tree with zero supporting documentation are tricky to say the least.

So this is about the parentage of Pvt. John Pool

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Pool-1131

The evidence seems clear John descended from David the Huguenot, doesn't it? So the question is which exact father?

Right.

The data for Alexander Pool and his wife Susanna Mitchell is clear enough: two orphan sons, James and Alexander. I don't see any name affinities or known associations between John Pool of South Carolina and the Alexander Pool family. So the basis for attaching John Pool to Alexander as son is not clear to me.

Cynthia Curtis, A183502, US7875087 are there notes we are missing?