Hericeus (Herice) de Beaugency - Origins of the Harris surname: toponym or patronym?

Started by Erica Howton on Sunday, October 15, 2023
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As far as I know, the Hericus de Beaugency story came from "The Harris Family Papers" by Krentzman. I don't have a copy of these papers so what I am about to post for you is second hand but it does appear to be the source for this information...including that Hericus is the son of a Londric de Beaugency.

I'll copy it below:

Vance C. Harris

The Harris family Papers by Krentzman gives the family seat as Weston Hanges, Kent. There was a Manor House at Westenhanger, near Hythe. He continues Londric De Beaugency of Orleans, France was ancestor to the powerful Barons of Beaugency and had two sons John and Hericeus, who lived around 996 to 1031 A.D. Hericeus had a son Ancelin de Beaumont who went to England and held a Barony in Nottingham about 1086. Ancelin's son Ivo Fitz Herice or de Heris was Viscount of Nottingham before 1130 and his sons were Ralph Hauseline, Robert Fitz Herice (executed by Henry II), Josseline, William (who held three fiets in Nottingham and four in Lincoln), and Humphry. The French name Herice seems to have been changed to Harris, by their sons who became increasingly more English.


From https://cybergata.com/roots/21892.htm

It is probable that "Robert de Dun" was Henry de Ferrer's tenant in Normandy, and held Hilton and Stapleford of him in England, and was the father of Robert de Heriz I., whose family held Herissiere in Avranches under the overlordship of Hugh d'Avranches …

Thomas Heriz, alias Harris


https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Herice-1

He has been detached from Ancelin De Beaumont as a father due to a lack of evidence and dates not working.

A death date of 1246 was entered when this profile was created. It has been removed.

Keats-Rohan, in Domesday Descendants, reports: Sheriff of Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire in 1128, he was probably the son of Robert de Heriz who had held that office 1110-14. He married Emma, through whom he obtained Gonalston in Nottinghamshire and Kelmarsh in Northamptonshire. They had four sons: William, Robert, Philip, and Richard, of whom William seems to have succeeded his father in the period 1140-58, and a daughter who married Warin Pité. See Foulds, Thurgarton Cart., Introd. pp. cxlvii-viii. Pipe Roll 31 Henry I, 7a-ntdb

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Andrew Lancaster

Wife is maybe his grandson's?? In any case we should use better sources than some of the ones mentioned in previous comments. Online genealogies often contain large amounts of old speculations for this period.


Are we missing profiles in Geni?

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_Heriez-4

Hericeus was father of Ancelin de Beaumont (styled "Ancelin" in Domes- day Book), who, in 1086, held a great Barony in iSTottingham, England.

His son, Ivo Fitz Herice or de Heris, was Viscount of Nottingham before 1130. He had issue: —

1. Ralph Hauseline, who held the Barony in 1165.

2. Robert Fitz Herice, mentioned in a charter of Barberic Abbey. He was executed by Henry II. of England (who reigned from 1154 to 1189).

3. Josseline, mentioned as being of Hunts in 1156.

4. William, who held, in 1165, three fiefs in Nottingham, and four in Lincoln.

5. Humphrey — Humphrey Harris was of Berks, 1158.


Tagging Private User

Private User

https://walterfitzgilbertdehamilton.wordpress.com/2015/10/30/robert...

Reading Mr. Yeatman* is like opening a box of chocolates, people just pick out the chocolate that is most attractive to their tastebuds. He offered chocolates to suit all prejudice. If he were with us now, he would not, as an inteligent person, have opined that the Heriz took their toponym from Hericourt; an ‘out-of-the-top-of-the-head’ orthological projection, if presented with facts to the contrary: The Heriz family held la (Héris)siere, Haye-Pesnel, Avranches, of the Peverels, under Hugh d’Avranches (obit. July 27, 1101). Geoffrey de Heriz is recorded in Avranches with ‘les hommes de Guillaume Peverel sont du diocèse d’Avranches’ (Société d’archéologie et d’histoire de la Manche, 1992, Identification des notables de l’Avranchin et du Cotentin cités dans le livre noir de l’abbaye de la Lucerne, 1143-1309, p. 56). Hence the Heriz armorial of three hedgehogs, a pun on a contraction of their toponym (Heris), with Le Hérisson being an hedgehog. This has long since been known: ‘Le sire de Heriz fit construire son château de la Hérissière, dont les soubassements servent an château actuel'(Revue de l’Avranchin et du pays de Granville, vols. 27-28). Heris, the contraction of Hérissière, was a common spelling in official documents: ‘Hugo de Heris tenet Stapilford … Robertus de Heris, militem … Willelmus de Heris, milit …’ (R.B.E). Hérissiere was also called La Rochelle-le-Hericiere (D.N., v. xi., p. 379, 1776), and another common spelling of Heriz was Herice, a contraction of Hericiere. *John Pym Yeatman. Lost certificates of Knight’s fees for the counties of Nottingham and Derby.

What can not be proved is that Geoffrey Alselin’s son was Geoffrey de Heriz, aforesaid. …

Two different families, actually.

https://groups.io/g/crispincousins/topic/de_heriz_and_de_hercy_of/7...

For some time I have concurred with the hypothesis of Michael Stanhope that the families de Heriz and de Hercy are the same, with ancient origins that include the fief of Herissiere near Avranches.

https://walterfitzgilbertdehamilton.wordpress.com/2015/10/30/malvoi...

This hypothesis is seemingly confirmed by the presence at Grove, Nottinghamshire of the families de Heriz and de Hercy. However, I now realize these are likely different families. The family de Hercy or Hericy originates at Héricy, Seine-et-Marne whereas de Heriz or Herice originates at Herils, near Bayeux.

The progeny of Malvesin de Herci held portions of Grove and Retford in Nottinghamshire from the dowry of Malvesin’s wife Theophania. Theophania was a daughter and heiress of Gilbert de Arches. We find an entry in the Red Book of the Exchequer stating “Hugo de Heriz de Grava to Robert fil Richard de Retford, vicar, and William fil Ralf, his kinsman.” However, we will find that this Hugo de Heriz is not from the family of Malvesin. …

…. The le Rous family de Gay (aka Joy, Gouy, Gaugy) also held at Kirtlington. This is my family, which continued to hold Gouy near Rouen well after the Conquest. We find William Rufus de Gaugy holding lands at Stapleford, Nottinghamshire. This William Rufus is clearly a descendent of Geoffrey Rufus de Eccleston aka de Heriz or a brother who inherited Stapleford from their mother Alicia de Heriz. The family de Gouy bears arms with cinquefoils and also a double headed eagle, the two most common emblems of the family le Rous:

https://houseofnames.com/joy-family-crest

https://houseofnames.com/Joy-family-crest/English

The Harris family of Cricksea Essex has arms closely resembling Joy of England, featuring three cinquefoil roses on a bend.

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