Cynwrig ap Llewelyn - Cynwrig ap Llewelyn

Started by John Love on Saturday, October 28, 2023
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Good morning,

As I was looking at the child of Cynwrirg, Dafydd Llwyd ap Cynwrig, it appears that Dafydd Llwyd was born at or around the same time as his father. Has anyone looked at this before and can shed some light on the correct dates of birth for father and son?

Thanks for your help.
John Love

This charting is from Bartrum's Gruffudd ap Cynan 5; https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000173392536826. Bartrum is problematic here, as he has conflated 2 men named Gruffudd ap Cynan, which throws off his dating. You can see that he has both Cynwrig and Llewelyn in the same generation, 7. That would be OK if Llewelyn were 1230 and Cynwrig 1265. But that would push Dafydd Llwyd to around 1295. BUT...Darrell Wolcott would date Cynwrig at closer to 1255. But that would still make Dafydd Llwyd no earlier than 1285. We are pretty confident that Annes ferch Gwyn, wife of Dafydd Llwyd would fall near 1260, which should put Dafydd Llwyd at 1245/50.

What I suspect, at this point, is that this Dafydd Llwyd ap Cynwrig belongs as the son of an earlier Cynwrig ap Llewelyn in this extended family. Neither I, nor Private User, have started work on the Gruffudd ap Cynan series of charts. So for now, I think the best thing is to leave this alone and revisit it when we can get to that point, or we can get some clarification from Darrell Wolcott.

I have contacted Darrell Wolcott on this. His current charting shows that there were two men named Cynwrig in this family. Cynwrig ap Llewelyn ap Dafydd ap Llewelyn Fawr (c.1233) was married to c. 1275 Angharad ferch Thomas. Cynwrig ap Dafydd ap Llewelyn Fawr (brother of Llewelyn ap Dafydd) has been added at c. 1235, married to a sister (c.1240) of Osbwrn Wyddel. Both men had sons named Dafydd Llwyd. The c. 1290 Dafydd Llwyd had a daughter who married Sir Robinet Pigot, while the c. 1260 Dafydd Llwyd married Annes ferch Gwyn and had daughter Mawd, who married Dafydd Goch.

All corrections have been made, so take a look and see if I missed anything.

Thanks John Love for bringing this back to my attention.

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