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Catherine Cleland - THE ANCESTRY OF CATHERINE CLELAND

Started by Private User on Saturday, December 9, 2023
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The ancestry of Catherine Cleland, the wife of John Balch, has not been satisfactorily identified. Presently, it is claimed that she was the daughter of Alexander Cleland of that Ilk and his wife Mary Hamilton, but proof of relationship is not offered. The only evidence cited in her profile overview is Balch Genealogica, which which claims that she belonged to a Scottish family.

Balch Genealogica: page 96

https://archive.org/details/cu31924029819038/page/n143/mode/1up

If anyone can identify evidence which names of her father and mother I would be grateful if they would bring it forward.

A search from 1999:

https://www.colonial-settlers-md-va.us/getperson.php?personID=I6980...

Posted by: George Clelland Date: March 30, 1999 at 14:57:13
In Reply to: Catherine Cleland - 1640 Scotland by Becky Richards of 881

We have caried out a search for a Catherine Cleland born 1640 We came up with 3 Kathrin and Katherines Details as follows.

Kathrin Cleland christned 13th July 1656 Camusnethan, Lanark her parent was Alexander Cleland.

Katherine Cleland of Eastend,Carmichael, Lanark Will dated 18.06.1621

Katherine Cleland wife of Arthur Cleland, Hallhill, Lesmahagow will dated 27.02.1657

https://www.stirnet.com/genie/data/british/cc4aq/cleland02.php

Alexander Cleland 'of that ilk'

  • The book that is the Main Source for this family reports that this Alexander had no right to call himself 'of that ilk'.
  • m. (c1680) Margaret Hamilton (dau of William Hamilton, 3rd of Wishaw)
  • (1) James Cleland

For the benefit of anyone who is genuinely interested in establishing an accurate ancestry for Catherine Cleland I should add the following information:

1.Catherine Cleland is not mentioned in Stillman Foster Kneeland's account of the family: Seven Centuries of the Kneland Family.

https://archive.org/details/sevencenturiesin1897knee/page/n4/mode/1up

2. Catherine Cleland is not mentioned in John Burton Cleland's account of the Family: Ancient Family of Cleland.

https://archive.org/details/ancientfamilyofc00clel/page/n6/mode/1up

3. Stirnet's report on a number of different accounts of the family reveals a certain confusion about the true identity of Catherine’s putative father Alexander Cleland of that Ilk. It too makes no mention of Catherine Cleland. See Stirnet: Cleland 02

https://www.stirnet.com/genie/data/british/cc4aq/cleland02.php

4. Finally. Catherine's putative father is presently identified as the husband of Mary Hamilton (reported by Stirnet to have been married in c. 1620). This suggests that Alexander is the man of the same name, identified as the fiar of Cleland, who died intestate in July 1634. If this identification is correct, then it should be noticed that his testament dative did not make any financial provision whatsoever for his widow, if he had one, or for his children, if he had any.

 
from "Seven Centuries in the Kneeland Family" by Stillman Foster Kneeland,

https://archive.org/details/sevencenturiesin1897knee/page/33/mode/1...

12. Alexander Cleland 12, of that ilk, married Mary, sister of John Hamilton, first Lord Bargany, and the youngest daughter of Sir John Hamilton, of Bargany, and his spouse, Margaret Campbell, daughter of Rev. Alexander Campbell, Bishop of Brechen, who was descended from the Duke of Argyle, By her he had several sons, the eldest of whom sold the lands of Kneland (then designated as Cleland) to a cousin of his own name. From this point the heirship is broken. Burke's account, taking up the third son, John Cleland, who was the ancestor of the Rose-Clelands, who were subscribers to Burke.

I would suggest that the person be researched further. It is obvious that Thomas Balch and Robert Balch had a mother. Maybe you can start there by looking for information not on the internet. Possibly there are birth records, church books, school registers, migration statements. Genealogy is not just an online job. Even though I like old books, sometimes they (obviouly) leave out important information. Some people had to actually visit the towns where people were born to find records. Records located in the particular countries where a person was married. If one was serious, he might have to visit Somerset, England, or even Scotland or Ireland for more information. Would certainly benefit a reputation if someone could actually find more information on the mother Catherine (Catharine Cleland , McCleland).

So Michael Dwayne Hamilton you probably know that I work a lot on the first immigrants to America. Geni curating practice is, at these historic generations, to be fairly strict across the pond. We link back on the profile about rather than connect when we don’t have certainty. It allows for more exploration, as you describe above.

Since no one has come forward with evidence for the ancestry of Catherine Cleland I propose to disconnect her from the family tree of Alexander Cleland, fiar of that Ilk.

Do not disconnect, "Neil". We went over this, last month. Over and over, again? Really determined, maybe you should quit obsessing and move on. Please do not ask Erica to help you in this endeavor

Michael Dwayne Hamilton - can I ask why?

It is the practice on geni to detach relationships we cannot (at this time) prove. We link back in “about” and discussion to make it easy to reconnect, as evidence presents.

So why should this case be any different from how we work on site?

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