Resolving Duplicate Private Profiles

No

I tried it and it works.

According to what you said, you just chopped off a profile that you do not manage and that was connected correctly.
What makes that an acceptable thing to do to a Profile managed by someone else?

I gave it due consideration. The person who added the private profile still has access to the public profile spouse. By making her profile private, he or she decided that profile should not be part of the public world tree. So be it. Once the duplicate public profile was added, the “privacy” of the private profile vanished and no longer served whatever purpose the manager intended. You do not have a right to maintain private duplicate profiles of otherwise public profiles. Your dead ancestors do not belong to you; they are also someone else’s ancestors.

That seems in contradiction to what a Curator said here: https://www.geni.com/discussions/272643?msg=1668672 on 12/4/2023,
which includes
"The manager / family of a private profile born in the last 150 years have every right to keep it private. Those profiles do not need to be public. There is no such concept on Geni."
And
"Also please note that it is generally not appropriate to create a public copy of a private profile of someone born in the last 150 years in order to get the two merged, and therefore in some way to force a private profile to become public. The correct approach is to ask the profile manager of the private profile whether they would like to make the profile public. If they respond negatively or do not respond, the privacy must be respected. Curators cannot and will not use curator tools to force profiles to be public where the rules of Geni.com allow them to be private."

That is focused on merging. I do not think creating a Public Profile and cutting off the Private is considered more appropriate.

Mike Stangel - do you agree with Capt Henry Edward Heater that on Geni

"Once the duplicate public profile was added, the “privacy” of the private profile vanished"
And that
"You do not have a right to maintain private duplicate profiles of otherwise public profiles." --
and that therefore, for example,
if someone creates a duplicate that is Public, it is fine for them to cut the Private Profile off and set it adrift as a singleton? Or??

Are the answers different if the Profile is less than 150 years old, or born over 150 years ago?

Could you please also clarify the statement in Working with the World Tree https://www.geni.com/projects/Working-with-the-World-Tree/12429
"private profiles "gum up" the historical tree and require other users, who cannot view them, to create duplicates" -
Is it fine to knowingly create duplicates of Private Profiles regardless if they are living or deceased?
Or only if deceased?
Or only if deceased and born over 150 years ago?
Or?
If it is fine to create duplicates even of the living, then I will probably start creating duplicates of my 4th cousins once removed, etc. I have been assuming that that would be wrong. But maybe that was just me being stupid?

The simple question is whether a duplcate private profile of a public profile serves a purpose for anyone, including its manager Geni protects the privacy of living people, probably to avoid litigation. I accept that as a necessary rule.The disconnect is the 150 year rule, which probably makes no sense. That rule prevents curators from merging private profiles of dead people that clog up the system. I found a way around it. The overriding purpose of geni is at odds with private trees. If you want a private tree, then use ancestry. It is futile to make a profile private when its birthdate, deathdate, marriage, obituary and grave are public information.

I forgot to add, that i also have the right to create the profile
of a dead person and make it public. Assume we are siblings. I add our dead grandfather’s profile as public. You add him as private, and he was born less than 150 years ago. Does your right trump my right? Moerover, in this case I did ask the manager to make her profile public, with no response.

The question is also - if I have a profile I have and want Private of a recently deceased member of my immediate family,, do you have the right to knowingly and purposely create a Public Profile of them?

And just so you are aware, Geni's answer in that case is that, if you are not in the Profile's Max Family and I am, then I have the right to merge the Profiles, remove you as a Manager, and make the merged Profile Private.
So I am not sure Geni views things as you believe it does.

That family members can remove outsiders from managing their family is spelled out in https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/229704067-What-are-my-manag...
"For profiles of people closely related to you, you can add yourself as a manager and you can remove managers who are not closely related to that profile, by clicking on the "x" next to their name."

And I also wonder how ethical it is to add details one got from the Compare Profile Screen from a Private Profile to a Public Profile, especially if no records supporting the detail was added.

The Mike I tagged is the General Manager of Geni, so I sort of want to hear his view.

Well, you are expanding the original thread way beyond its context. I simply merged into a public profile that was attached to the private profile of someone who had been dead for over 80 years. That private profile duplicated a public profile I had created from public sources not from some Compare Profile Screen. I do not have a problem with managers who wish to keep private the profile of a recently deceased close family member, unless they have published a newspaper obituary with all that person’s details.

If an “inactive” manager fails to respond to a request to make a private profile public, than that inactive manager can be removed as manager. https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/229706587-What-is-an-Inacti... The private profile can then be made public. Voila.

Nothing in https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/229706587-What-is-an-Inacti... about removing an inactive manager.
" in order to prompt the system to assign another manager " -- as you can tell from the rest of that piece, is not talking about removing any manager, just adding an additional manage.
And that only happens sometimes.
And be aware - "Active" means logged in in the past 9 months, does not mean did more than maybe just looked at something.

I guess you missed this part:” A profile manager is considered inactive if he or she has not logged into Geni in the past 9 months. This can pose a problem on private profiles, because there may be no manager responding to merge requests, questions about profile information, etc. Users may report these inactive managers in order to prompt the system to assign another manager who can collaborate on such requests.”

No, I saw that.
There is NOTHING THERE about REMOVING a manager.
JUST about ADDING ANOTHER manager.

You conveniently ignore the point. I cannot merge a public profile with a private profile without the cooperation of the inactive profile’s cooperation. The curator, however, can add or replace the inactive manager to allow the merger. The merger of course eliminates the faux privacy. Either way, the tree is improved. I simply engaged in self-help without bothering a busy curator. So, you never answered my original question: what purpose does the private profile of a dead person serve when none of that person’s information is private. Ironically, by detaching the private profile, I made it even more private.

Re: "The curator, however, can add or replace the inactive manager to allow the merger. " - No, Curators cannot do that.
You, I, any Geni User whether Basic, or Pro, or Curator, can click the Actions Button and, if they see "Inactive Manager". Click to send the system an Inactive Manager Report.
In which case an Algorithm - not a person - does as is described in that link.

This is the weekend. I would not expect Mike to respond on the weekend. And there has been so much written since I tagged him, not sure whether he will wade thru it all.
But hoping he will respond to at least the original question set I asked him.

You ignore the clear language: the curator can add a manager “who can collaborate on such [merger requests.” You seem to like to argue simply for the sake of arguing. You still will not answer my question of what purpose a private profile serves when its data is no longer private.That is because it makes your position indefensible.

Ok., thanks Erica. The language in the help section says a curator can “assign” another manager to merge the private profile - you use the word “append.” You limit it to situations where the private profile is ouside the 150 year rule, a limitation not in the help section. I always thought, however, that curators could simply edit a private profile to make it publc in such cases. If so, then why append another manager first. As for detaching spouses, I found no help sections that limited it. One section did suggest you could detach a divorced spouse, as opposed to simply editing the relationship status to indicate spouse was divorced. In such case, you would be detaching a spouse that had been correctly connected. In any event no manager has objected to my detachment, and one co-manager has thanked me. Which leads to another question: where a private profile has two managers, can one manager change the profile to publc without the other manager’s permission? Cheers, Henry

https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/229706587-What-is-an-Inacti... makes no mention whatsoever of Curators.

It does NOT SAY A CURATOR "can “assign” another manager"

1) it is discussing an algorithm -- not something a Curator - or any other person - does.
2) it says "assign another manager" not remove the first one, not replace the first one -- Erica tried to make it clearer what was meant by using the word "appended" so you would understand it meant 'assign another manager to join the other(s) as manager of the profile"

Huh! It looks like you are repeatedly making duplicates of Profiles as a sibling and then merging, even when the original was Public, not Private, so can think of no reason to create a duplicate. For example:

For Maria Anna Maurer
<private> Heater was added as a manager of Maria Anna (Blath) Maurer. / Fri at 9:27 AM
Maria Blath was merged into Maria Anna (Blath) Maurer by Capt Henry Heater. / Fri at 9:27 AM · view
Maria Blath was added as Maria Anna (Blath) Maurer's sibling by Capt Henry Heater. / Fri at 9:26 AM

For Elizabeth Segner
<private> Heater was added as a manager of Elizabeth (Koehler) Segner. / Fri at 10:30 AM
Eilizabeth Koehler was merged into Elizabeth (Koehler) Segner by Capt Henry Heater. / Fri at 10:30 AM · view
Eilizabeth Koehler was added as Elizabeth (Koehler) Segner's sibling by Capt Henry Heater. / Fri at 10:29 AM

For Johann “John” Segner
<private> Heater was added as a manager of Johann “John” Segner. / Fri at 10:27 AM
Johann Segner was merged into Johann “John” Segner by Capt Henry Heater. / Fri at 10:27 AM · view
Johann Segner was added as Johann “John” Segner's sibling by Capt Henry Heater. / Fri at 10:26 AM

Many, many, many more.
I thought maybe I could locate and look at the profile you were talking about at the start of this discussion. So far, have not found it.

Hope it is obvious in my post above that "you" is Capt. Henry, not Erica.

Erica Howton - did you see the start of this, where Capt. Henry says
"I have a private proflie that is duplcative of a dead publid profile. No children have been added. Can I simply edit the public profile’s wife to detach the private profile spouse?"
And then he said "I tried it and it works."

To which I responded "According to what you said, you just chopped off a profile that you do not manage and that was connected correctly.
What makes that an acceptable thing to do to a Profile managed by someone else?"

His reply is here: https://www.geni.com/discussions/274468?msg=1676168

I tagged Mike to reply to his main points there, but Mike is often very busy, so no idea when or if he might respond.
Do you by any chance want to jump in?

Erica Howton -
Agree, how awful or acceptable or whatever his specific action was would require looking at the specific case.

Think not so for his blanket statements in that response I linked to that

"Once the duplicate public profile was added, the “privacy” of the private profile vanished"
And that
"You do not have a right to maintain private duplicate profiles of otherwise public profiles."

In any case, Erica, thanks for hopefully having corrected some of his misunderstandings.
I find it is often helpful when someone else explains the same thing in different words, since we each think differently.
And being a Curator, you have way more direct experience with what Curators can do - plus it means your word likely carries more weight.

Lois:I do make duplicates of public profiles and then re-merge them. I have two special projects. To add profiles to those projects you have to be a manager of the profile. When I create the duplicate, I am manager of the duplicate and can add it to the projects. When I remerge the profile, the merged profile belongs to both projects..