Query on children of John Thomas BARNES

HI Leanne,

John Thomas Barnes b. 1829 d 1900 is the correct match for this tree. He married his first wife Elizabeth Barnes nee Burchett in Meadow Flat. The did not get on and he left her - no issue. Article on Trove where Elizabeth takes him to Court for desertion and his mother Lydia gets involved and the case is dropped.
Registration no. 184 Vol 84 at a Wesleyan Church His Brother in Law John Frazier is a Witness (the Husband of Lydia Robely Barnes)

He started living with Ellen Hearne (also from Meadow Flat), and they have all of their children together before finally marrying in November 1877. Registration no. 3188

After Ellen dies he marries Mary Ridden in 1893 in Condobolin Australian Index to Marriages Registration Number 2923

The other John Thomas Barnes who lived and Married and had children in Tamworth is not the same person.

You are correct. It is. Margaret. . My apologies. I don’t have a link. I have the hard copy certificates for both Margaret Burchett. And Ellen Hearne.. I typed off the reply too quickly

You are correct. It is. Margaret. . My apologies. I don’t have a link. I have the hard copy certificates for both Margaret Burchett. And Ellen Hearne.. I typed off the reply too quickly

Yes they did both remarry. Although Ellen and John didn’t until 1877.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/62518048?searchTerm=Dese...

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/62518612?searchTerm=Caut...

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/62519837?searchTerm=Caut...

For information on how common people separated. The national archives in England talks about it here:

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/researc...

It is very common in my research here in the uk. If you weren’t happy with your partner, you left and moved to another parish to get married again.
Lydia was married 2 x in London before being transported- both husbands still alive at the time.

Thomas married 2x before he was transported no death record for his first wife that I can find

Also what is interesting with John and Margaret is that they were related. Margaret is the granddaughter of Margaret Lofty (nee Baker) who is the half sister of Thomas Barnes

I have a picture of Elizabeth Barnes’s death certificate. Who was married to the other John Barnes. Not sure how to share it but it lists the children (alive and dead). And they don’t match. This other family were in Forbes and Tamworth. Not really near meadow flat or Condobolin. There is no way he could physically be at 2 places at the same time.

I think as they lcame from Rngland. They might have followed a lot of the “old” rules. Family search has an interesting article here https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Divorce_in_England_and_Wales
As a side note on Lydia
I have a marriage record for a Lydia Astell/Estell the name his mother used at trial to a Richard Porrit in London in 1813. Which may or may not be her. Which is only 3 years after her marriage to Benjamin Esden. I think Astell may have been a stage name. But a newspaper also lists her having the alias Clayton. And I still haven’t found anything on that ….yet.

I tend to think it was rather prolific. More than we think

I could find no Lydia Astill born in Berkshire for the same date of birth. I believe it might have been her stage name.

Lydia Astill had her own lawyer, paid no doubt by her family. Both the Etherington and Robely families were quite well off. I know I had similar questions about 15 years ago when first starting out on this line, however, It would be strange to have 2 women charged with the exact same crime, coming out on the exact same date, both born in Berkshire (miles away from sussex) on the same date. A lot of records list the her as the same person. See below

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-bristol-mercury-and-daily-po....

The Colonial Secretary Index recognised her as the same person for the following entries:

BARNES, Lydia. Per "Janus", 1820 as Lydia Astell; wife of Thomas Barnes
1820 Sep 4,19 - Re permission to marry James Nelson at Sydney; listed as Estill (Reel 6007; 4/3502 p.244)
1824 Jul 9 - Sentenced to Female Factory. On return of fines and punishments in the Police Office (Reel 6023; 4/6671 p.81)
1824 Dec 6 - Requesting to leave the Parramatta Factory for a few days to collect her property (Fiche 3076; 4/1836A No.33A p.163). Reply, 16 Dec (Reel 6014; 4/3513 p.107)
1825 Mar 10 - Copy of articles of co-partnership with William Charles in Macquarie Tavern (Reel 6017; 4/5782 p.321)
1825 Apr 29 - Memorial of her husband Thomas re her elopement and intention to leave the Colony (Reel 6063; 4/1786 p.58)
1825 May 3 - Copy of rental agreement for house at South Head Road (Reel 6017; 4/5782 p.322)
1825 May 12 - Re transfer of to the Factory (Reel 6014; 4/3514 p.277)

As to Margaret Barnes wife of John Barnes Tamworth, I can't share the picture of the death certificate but the particulars are

Certificate No: 6844 (this is the original hand written certificate)

Death Date
07/08/1872 Tamworth

Name and Occupation
Margaret Barnes
Married Woman

Female
45 years

Death Cause Duration
Disease of the stomach caused by excessive drinking of spirits, duration 6 months, Dr Dove 08/08/1872

Name and Occupation of Father and Mothers Maiden Name
Unknown

Certified by
John Barnes
Husband of the deceased

Where and When Buried
11/08/1872
Tamworth

Where born and how long in the colonies
Ireland 34 years in New South Wales

Place of Marriage and to whom
Scone 15 years
John Barnes

Children of Marriage
3 Males and 2 Females living
1 male and 2 Females Deceased.

Compare this to Margaret Burchett

B:1833/4 East Sussex England Baptised 26 Jan 1834 to David Burchett and Charlotte Lofty D 1897 (died as Margaret Vincent) the daughter of David and Charlotte reg no 2217

Buried at Tarana, NSW. No Children known

Not born in Ireland. Died under her married name to her second Marriage Vincent (as would be expected).

The Margaret listed in the death information above is not the same as Margaret Burchett, who was English not Irish and had no known children.

I hope this helps clear things up. There was another John and Margaret Barnes, who are not a part of this family who lived in Scone and Tamworth. But I have not found a familial connection

is barnesy the singer related has for the nutter needed to control himself my gtgtgt thomas soden would left him in his cell to die in the bathurst jail barnes arein the stanshall tree way out near crofts

1877 jane harriet barnes married thank goodness that man is not in my tree thanks shirl