Macbeth, King of Scots - DNA & Macbeth

I second that request. You can use me as a signature match if you need... He came from Donata, the third daughter... we come from the 1st, Bethoc.

The funny part about this is... when I was over in WV working for the feebs.. I went to a play at the Shepherdstown University which portrayed him... little did I know I was watching a play about our own family member. I about $#!t when I found out that was our blood. I couldn't believe it... I was stunned for about... a year.

~

Any DNA matches ? Would have to be haplogroup E

Would have to be Haplogroup E? LOL, no. Macbeth was a White Scottish man. There was no black Royalty.

'Dr.' Wilton McDonald II is an Afrocentrist which claims native Americans were originally of sub-Saharan origin. LOL

Agree with Mr Washington, certainly Y-DNA does not pass thru the female line!!!

Thank you gentlemen, I always try to see the other person's side of things especially when it comes to Wilton, because I consider him a friend, that I know personally.

I don't doubt the current evidence that the Adam out of Africa gene is real and with that being said we are ALL Africans, but... I guess what we are going for here is... did George carry the same genes as the current day Africans, and that answer is an absolute no, and here's why.

My DNA test clearly indicates NO African lineage, at all. Not one drop of my blood is Native American or African. I am thee last pure-blood European Washington in my line because my first wife, of whom I had 5 children with, had cherokee blood. My second wife of whom I had 3 children with, is 25% Cherokee, her grandfather is full blooded. So, my children are all hybrid European-Native American... and those are some strong genes let me tell ya... however, unless I have a European Royal ask me to donate for a surrogate mom... I have yet to produce a 100% pure European Washington. It's just the way love works ya know.. we don't get to pick when we're young.. unless we're raised to know. Me.. I just winged it. LOL ... so, I'm waiting for Paris Hilton to be a surrogate mom for me... or one of those Princesses that I added on my geni page... name, Lady Windsor... if I had to pick, it would be that one. hahaha.. Just don't tell my wife. She knows that I'm joking but ... in an alternate reality.. who would it be? ya know? : )

George was not African Wilton... I agree we all have African roots, but the characteristics have all been washed away by time, and I cannot with a clear conscience, consider him of "immediate" African descent.

One last thing before I jump off... and that is, I wouldn't be upset if I it was. Our deeds define who we are, not our skin color.

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We're not all Africans and there's plenty of scientific evidence against the OOA theory. None of my dna tests show any sub-Saharan African DNA. Even going back 45KY years.

This video shows how the OOA theory cannot be trusted with scientific researching. https://youtu.be/lABvt4l0S3Y?si=b-EPa1348mgcY6y5

Continuing with the theme above, there has been some recent work that postulated a European origin, see "Anadoluvis turkae" skull, but still a highly controversial idea ("Potential hominin affinities of Graecopithecus from the late Miocene in Europe" - Fuss, et al, 2017..also "New ape from Turkiye and the radiation of late Miocene hominines", Begun et al, 2023)

Woah, see.. now if you give me data (statistics), I can tell you that George was EXTREMELY good at statistics, and you giving me the data that you have no Sub-Saharan African DNA for 45K years is extremely strong data that any African genetics would of had to occur "before" that number of years. That's incredible. I did not do the Big Y yet I only made it to the test just below that one. know back to about 12,000 years because I only did the Y gene, which is what I wanted to focus on and Wilton .... You're a lawyer, .. you know that only the facts matter in that courtroom... and the facts are, I have proof of non African genetics back to 12,000 years, and my man Daniel here. .. he's showing data back to 45 thousand years.. no African.

I can only say that Daniel has a better understanding of his than mine chronologically, even though he comes from a possibly different line. I think I'm going to have to get the big Y done.. and that's doable, but I'm getting alot of data just from here talking to you guys about it. The more data you give me... the more this brain of mine computers. Trust me dude... I didn't know "what" I was for a long long time. Having a thoroughbred gene that goes back a thousand years is like.. a stallion... or a dog.. who's bloodline is A.K.C. registered, all that.. it's weird. Trust me.. nobody is more weirded out about being who they are, than I am, LOL ... SMH.

Ok, now Ear'ls statement.

I think he's onto something, and it would HAVE to be a skull older than 45 thousand years going by Daniel's input. So... yah dude... Wilton, .. if you want to prove this, you're going to have to look at individuals OLDER than 45 thousand years.

~

Daniel, just for your fyi in this case:

Daniel is George Washington, 1st President of the United States' fourth cousin 7 times removed.

I have no idea how that calculates to me. Just an fyi.

Looks like someone went slash-slash on this thread, because there's no clear transition from Macbeth to George Washington - just an Olympic-class running jump.

One thing that's getting lost in this discussion is that DNA, particularly Y-DNA, evolves and keeps evolving, which is why we now have so many haplogroups.

And one other detail: it's R-S744, not a naked "S744" or an erroneous "S-744".

The R haplogroup is one of the youngest, thought to have arisen in southern Siberia and diversified all over the place from there. It's also one of the most prolific, with skillions of subclades from Reykjavik to Vladivostok. (R-S744 has itself been found to have a number of subclades, snd they're still finding more!)

Apologies, please note when i reference SNP S744, assume it is R-S744 thx

I can second that.. as my oldest part of my gene shows Scandinavia, so.. someone came from the North at some point in the Y gene.

Europe 100%
Western Europe England, Wales, and Scotland - 35%
Central Europe - 31%
Ireland - 8%
Scandinavia - 3%
Eastern Europe West Slavic - 24%

Haplo S ?? This is Aborigine DNA ?? Macbeth was most likely a Haplo E like most people on the planet back then.

I have collected over 70 DNA samples- in the Outback , in NZ home of the Maoris, opened graves- the Haplo Es are connected to the base of global history. I use an INDEPENDENT DNA lab as well in Europe for oldest samples / most sensitive - like St Clairs/ Sinclairs - which are mostly Haplo Es.

No, not haplo S. Haplo R in the S744 subclade. Poster got lazy and left off the necessary prefix.

Haplo R - not E - has been the majority haplogroup in Western Europe since the late Neolithic (the chronology lines up approximately with the Indo-Euro influx, which makes sense as almost all modern European languages are Indo-Euro based).

That said, there *are* some families that fall into the E haplogroup with no obvious explanation (i.e. no proven direct connection to either Africa or the Levant). One is justified in suspecting the Roman system of drawing men for the Legions from all parts of their Empire, shifting them around without regard to place of origin, and pensioning them off with land wherever they were last stationed.

Wilton, I totally get what you mean.. problem is, finding a specimen that's as old as the below declaration. If a caucasian with Haplo-Type E exists... then, the gene still exists but is washed out genetically.

My question to you is... what is an acceptable answer to your question?

The question seems to be... Is haplotype E the FIRST gene on this planet? ... I don't know...

Where did haplogroup E come from?
Haplogroup E-M96
Haplogroup E
Possible time of origin 65,200 years BP, 69,000 years BP, or 73,000 years BP
Coalescence age 52,300 years BP
Possible place of origin East Africa, West Africa, or Eurasia
Ancestor DE

The oldest Y haplogroup is A. All the others evolved and split off from it, at various times and in various places. (And of course it spun off subclades of its own, too.)

Maven thank you for that info.

Wilton, I'm going to show you something that might help. I wouldn't have thought nothin' until I saw Haplotype A in the list below. Now... I looked it up, and haplotype A is almost entirely restricted to Africa... so right there is your proof.. some native Americans DO carry African genes. This is strictly concentrating on Native Americans mind you, not GW. : )

What haplogroup are indigenous Americans?
Early studies of Native American mtDNA variation have shown that all Native American mtDNAs belong to haplogroups A, B, C, D and X, and that some of these haplogroups are also common along the northern Pacific Rim (Torroni et al.

Wiki on Haplotype A:
By definition of haplogroup A as "non-BT", it is almost completely restricted to Africa, though a very small handful of bearers have been reported in Europe and Western Asia.

The clade achieves its highest modern frequencies in the Bushmen hunter-gatherer populations of Southern Africa, followed closely by many Nilotic groups in Eastern Africa. However, haplogroup A's oldest sub-clades are exclusively found in Central-Northwest Africa, where it (and by extension the patrilinear ancestor of modern humans) is believed to have originated. Estimates of its time depth have varied greatly, at either close to 190 kya or close to 140 kya in separate 2013 studies,[10][13] and with the inclusion of the previously unknown "A00" haplogroup to about 270 kya in 2015 studies.[14][15]

In regards to Macbeth's haplotype... his father was the king of Findland, so.. he would carry his Y, and Bethoc's Mtdna... which, I have but, I'd have to get my Mtdna sequencing done. It's $159.00 off FTDNA. I want to, but I'm hoping that it does not mingle too much with the Y data... I'm still searching my Y gene back so I don't know if that will screw things up or not.

If it don't... I'll do the Mtdna and see what it says. Macbeth's dad for reference.

Findláech mac Ruaidrí, thane of Angus, Mormaer of Moray

Macbeth, King of Scots is my first cousin 27 times removed. It's so far away, but since I´m 10% british, in some way it might be true, anyway.

Jeffery: "Early studies of Native American mtDNA variation have shown that all Native American mtDNAs belong to haplogroups A, B, C, D and X"

Stop right there. mtDNA is not the same thing as Y-DNA - in fact it is in some senses an opposite. Y-DNA can only be passed down the MALE line, but mtDNA can only be passed down the FEMALE line (while sons can receive it, they cannot pass it on).

mtDNA also evolves far more slowly than Y-DNA, which makes it more useful for "ethnicity" studies.

The distribution patterns of mtDNA are quite different from those of Y-DNA.

Do not, under any circumstances, confuse them (as you just did).

Jeffery said: "In regards to Macbeth's haplotype... his father was the king of Findland"

No, he wasn't. There was a general area known as "Finland", but it was (and is) on the wrong side of the Scandinavian peninsula, facing and bordering Russia. (It is thought by some scholars that the Rurikids were originally Finnish, not Norwegian or Swedish - but that's another discussion.)

Macbeth's father was Findlaech (personal name, meaning something like "fair-haired hero") mac Ruaidri (patronymic, i.e. Findlaech's father was named "Ruaidri". He was the hereditary ruler ("Mormaer") of Moray in Scotland, which in those days was a large and powerful realm and semi-independent of the Scotttish crown. (The House of Dunkeld broke the power of Moray and split it up into several different shires, leaving a weakened rump "Moray" to spawn later ballads.)

"Findlaech" as a name looks to Ireland, not Finland. (The original Scots were Irish colonists, but the Scots get very unhappy if anyone mentions that.)

Maven,

Thank you. I was curious about that because, it seems strange that Malcolm's daughter would send his daughter that far away, unless of course that was the deal they made.

The part about the original Scots being Irish, I knew that, as I am a direct descendent of Crinan The Thane, who I believe is 100% Irish Dalriata, as a culture, but his Y gene stems back to the people who migrated from Spain to Ireland in the 3rd to 5th century, somewhere in that timeframe.

I'm trying.... to find out more about Crinan The Thane's lineage at the same time we're talking about MacBeth.

~

I see what you mean about the difference between MTDNA and Y. I should have stopped myself from writing that passage because it dawned on me that Wilton was looking for the origin of the Y line of the native Americans. Although I do think the MTDNA is helpful because it's traceable farther back in time.

I once found a match to Washington blood, in Ireland, dated back 40,000 years..... so.. if you ask me... There is a strong possibility that the people who migrated to Ireland, mated with the "neolithic" descendants there. Just a theory.

fyi, I'm going to buy the BIG Y test and the MTDNA test soon based on this information, because I want to know what "they" know. Once you send your DNA in, all the data is there.. it's just a matter of paying to see it now. :/

Q: How far back does MTDNA go? (google)
Well, this makes it possible for us to trace these chromosomes back into the distant past. In fact, we can trace the mtDNA back to a woman from about 150,000 or 200,000 years ago that everyone on the planet is related to. And the Y chromosome to a man we're all related to from 60,000 or so years ago.Apr 18, 2012

Done ... Tired of not knowing what people already know about me. Time to find out more.

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