Linnéa Elvira Hurtig - Evidence for relationship needed

The sister of the prince, Sibylla, married Gustaf Adolf of Sweden and is the mother to our King Carl XVI Gustaf in Sweden.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_XVI_Gustaf

Under ett besök i London i november 1931, där prinsessan Sibylla, liksom prinsessan Ingrid av Sverige, var brudtärna på bröllopet mellan lady May Cambridge (brorsdotter till drottning Mary) och Henry Abel Smith, träffade hon sin syssling, arvprins Gustaf Adolf av Sverige, och tycke uppstod. De båda förlovade sig den 16 juni 1932 på slottet Callenberg i Beiersdorf utanför Coburg.

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibylla_av_Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Sibylla_of_Saxe-Coburg_and_G...

I can´t find any trace of Johann Leopold ever visiting Sweden, not even after that his sister married
in 1931 to Gustaf Adolf.

Erica Howton A First Reply to GENI.com in the question of Linnéa Elvira Hurtig and Prince Johann Leopold of Saxe Coburg und Gotha
Foremost is our hope that our place on the page can continue. GENI,com is particularly useful in that at once it allows viewing forward, backwards and laterally. This site has been especially helpful in that our presence has led to contact with persons sharing similar illegitimate (and off the public record) ancestry. Each such interaction raises the potential of acquiring support or of being proven to be in error. Both are welcomed outcomes as the benefits of support are obvious while, conversely, if mistaken, the sooner this is realized the sooner we can pursue a better solution.
Indeed, this approach has put me in contact with persons whose own certainty is improved by our sharing of effort.
The family history is that Linnéa's parents worked at the Bernadotte's Frötuna estate, later she as well. During the summer of 1925 she met and became pregnant by a teenage (late teens) boy from the south of Germany who was a guest at Frötuna.
Frötuna was a hospitality destination for guests of the King of Sweden with it's seclusion being an added asset for hosting persons he might otherwise not wish to be in public scrutiny.
In the narrative this Johann was in hiding from an undisclosed threat. His father was an important military person seen and remembered for his elaborate uniform.
The pregnancy had complications with the Bernadotte's paying for expenses. Paper file records of much of this have since disappeared or have been rendered no longer available for study. We do have online copies of some of these. As Linnéa was not able to fully parent the child Märtha was placed in foster care, again sponsored by the Bernadottes.
It became a routine for Märtha to receive a package every month, from the south of Germany, which usually included a porcelain figurine and oranges. This continued even during WW2. One gift was a Tissot Swiss wristwatch.
In 1939 our Johann appeared on public radio attempting to contact Linnéa. That she did not respond is consistent her lifelong effort to conceal Johann's identity from the family.
We have been criticised for "...choosing the wrong royal." Indeed, had we the luxury of choice we should not have selected Johann. That he is the son of the person often referred to as "Hitler's Royal" is confirmation as to motive in Linnéa's secrecy.
What clues we have are gathered from a lifetime of sometimes unguarded conversation with Linnéa and Märtha. We believe also that Märtha knew a great deal more than she was revealing.
That you should send us a link as to the limits of genetics in genealogy is an admonition well-received. Indeed, I myself post about twice a week (most often in groups) as to how to use genetics and what should not be expected from the same.
Some years ago I was invited to help solve this question. To begin I read some 437 thumbnail biographies on persons known to be guests at Frötuna, or who might have been.
A few individuals looked to be promising as suspects. Each of these was rejected for one cause or another.
Some forty DNA samples, linked to family trees, were used to reduce the possibilities. Several of these were "make or break." That being they were connected to family trees of such confidence that failure to agree would result in immediate rejection of the proposed solution.
In the time since most of my genealogy effort has been invested in increasing the confidence we can place in many of these samples. In several cases this has resulted in major progress in the ancestry of these persons. It's why we find it of import for our link to continue as this attracts interaction with persons claiming similar ancestry (as said before).
Of more importance even than GEDmatch is the identification of specific traits believed to be shared with northern European noble houses. One such salient trait is the rare trait of chimerism which Marianne has symptoms of. In my "A Gene of Thrones" inquiry I present evidence of this, and other rare genetic anomalies, in northern European noble lineages. This is assisted by a retired medical college teacher and also by my own academic training in physical anthropolgy.
Taken as a whole, we would be hard-pressed to find anyone other than Johann Leopold who might supply all of the necessary requisites.
It should also be understood that Marianne really has no need for aggrandizement. Her known and accepted genealogy was already more than enough to keep her busy while also assisting others as well.
It was only after I first suggested Johann Leopold that I was informed this first name had always been known.
Now to be sure, we cannot place Johann Leopold at Frötuna prior to the wedding of his sister there in 1932. We freely admit to this weakness. Then, neither have we seen any promised proof to the contrary from a few noteworthy and connected persons with qualified opinions. We still welcome these exchanges as we sometimes learn of supporting details from our critics. One detail we learned was that around the time of our Johann's hiding at Frötuna there was a great deal of civil strife in Germany with Johann Leopold's father even being dragged from his manor house by a communist mob. It might explain this facet of the narrative.
Once we had accepted Johann Leopold as our nominee we went back, more than once, to verify correct relationship to persons with dependable family trees. This continues to improve and is being organised, albeit slowly. Unfortunately a few of our GEDmatch samples allow our limited access only on occasion and only on condition of anonymity. We have attempted contact with close relatives of Johann Leopold, but have restricted this to one attempt to each.
Facial comparison programs have yielded very high scores not just to Johann Leopold, but also to many close relatives.
It is our hope that GENI.com would continue to extend to us their patience in light of our continuing effort to make this a solution which would find approval among your clients.
I remain available and at your service
Thomas E. Huggins

Private User
Erica Howton

Please see answer from my genealogist in the post above.
My own remark to Erica Howton's question: "What is the evidence please for a relationship between Linnéa Elvira Hurtig & Hereditary Prince Johann Leopold of Sachsen-Coburg and Gotha ?"

I am sorry, but since when is it common to ask for evidence of a "relationship" that might have been only one sexual encounter that resulted in a pregnancy? The evidence of this particular encounter is obviously my mother Märtha and the fact that my grandmother Linneá 'told everything she knew or atleastat least was allowed to tell my mother when she was old enough to understand. Most importantly it was not a rape in case anyone was wondering. The couple spent more than a "night" together and long enough for my grandmother Linnéa to learn some German, a language she used frequently and I as a child heard myself when visiting.

Why are so many people ignorant of the extent of frequent extramarital affairs among "prominent" people? In fact it is very well known that these affairs are common, has been and is still is. Just because there are no official records doesn’t mean it doesn't happen. Children born outside marriage are many and most of them are secrets still to this day. This should not be a surprise to anyone seriously doing family research.

A new law was accepted in the Swedish parliament in Sweden "Riksdagsskrivelse 1917:239 paragraph 13, stating in short that the mother had to tell if she knew who the father was or an extensive research would be launched according to this law.
An appointed social worker had to do everything in her/his power to find the father, even do research abroad. This was to ensure the child was taken care of economically.

I have all the social records of my mother. In one place someone started writing a name on the line of the father, but scratched it over leaving the rest blank. It does not say "unknown" There are no notes that there was an investigation done at all, but it does say documents are missing and I was also told this over the phone in person.

Best regards
HSH Lady Marianne Linnéa Olivia Victoria Silfverlåås Titular Countess Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg. OM.

Marianne wrote;
"During the summer of 1925 she met and became pregnant by a teenage (late teens) boy from the south of Germany who was a guest at Frötuna."

Märta Olivia Linnéa Hurtig born 15 februari 1926. 1925-06 = 9 months. Well, that fits. Either you need to prove that he was at Frötuna that summer, or you will need proof by DNA.

About Johann Leopold and titles.

In 1926, Johann Leopold passed his high school diploma at the Ritterakademie high school in Brandenburg Cathedral.This was followed by studying economics, art history and constitutional law at the Rheinische Friedrich-Wilhelms-Universität in Bonn until 1930, which was completed without an exam. In 1927 he became an inactive member of the Borussia Bonn Corps.

In 1928 he became a member of the Stahlhelmbund. In the following years he came into increasing conflict with his father Carl Eduard because of his lifestyle. In the summer of 1931, he filed an application for incapacitation on grounds of waste at the Coburg district court, which was granted. Johann Leopold came under temporary guardianship. Carl Eduard also did not agree with the choice of bride and refused his consent. Only when Johann Leopold lied to his father by claiming that his chosen one, Feodora Freiin von der Horst, who was married to Wolf Sigismund Pergler von Perglas from 1924 to 1931, was expecting a child from him, did he receive consent.

The incapacity for work was withdrawn and on 27 February 1932, Johann Leopold renounced his membership of the entire house, the special house and the circle of families entitled to donate to the family foundation, which applied to him, his future wives and all their descendants.

Related to this:

I noticed this guy Hans Peter Kerkeling

Private User

is claiming to be descended from

https://www.geni.com/people/Edward-VII-King-of-the-United-King

The problem with this: Edward certainly was a playboy, but he never acknowledged any children born outside of his marriage, and none ever came forward.

So there could be some kind of DNA cousin relationship here between these individuals as shows in Geni due to the way the trees and FTDNA links work, but finding hard evidence for the claims seems problematic.

Has this Hans fellow been contacted as well? Is there any hard evidence? How was Hans added in this fashion to the tree?

Erica Howton

Ok, I will. It was confusing if it was a match from FTDNA or just the way the trees were lining up based on what is in Geni.

Alex Moes

My titles were awarded me after being DNA matched with all European royal houses in 2017.

Princess Augusta of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg is my 6th great grandmother and that is confirmed by four geneologists from four different countries.
The certificates are signed and sealed by an apponited chancelor and notarious publicus in Australia.

I have nobility and royal lines on both my parents sides (they were cousins) I also have Garsenda DNA.

Don't you have anything better to do than to harass me?

Private User

Hello Karrie,
This Hans has been contacted by Thomas Huggins and there are evidence of a DNA match. I don't know how or how much since it is not me doing the DNA reseach. The problem with royal families is that the DO NOT have official dna tests out there for anybody to compare with. That is why one have to to do very complicated triangulations etc to be able to find evidence. People complaining here in this tread seem to think royals leave traces behind them where ever they go or do. Nothing is further from the truth.

Private User

The problem with royal families is that they DO NOT have official dna tests out there for anybody to compare with. That is why one have to do very complicated triangulations etc to be able to find evidence. People complaining here in this tread seem to think royals leave traces behind them where ever they go or do. Nothing is further from the truth.
Do you really think that it is recorded somewhere that Johann Leopold and two in his family visited Frötuna in 1925 when they were there iincognito? Frötuna is known to be a hideaway for royals and nobility. There are proof that Johann Leopold's sister Princess Sibylla was there atleast once.
To harass me is to say my grandmother lied about the family Saxe-Coburg and Gotha visited Frötuna, and that she knew Johann Leopold's name, age, place he was from, his father's high status etc Johann Leopold was persona non grata and concidered being a private person. It was more than a one night thing, why else would my grandmother learn German. Someone paid for all the expanses in regards of the pregnancy and afterwards. Johan Leopold made an attempt on the radio to locate my grandmother in 1939, but she had moved on in her life and did not respond. The whole school my mother went to heard this message. I have much more specific details my grandmother told.
The Swedish DNA expert Peter Sjölund told me to look furtherv in Germany. Prince Andreas of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha HAS NOT answered me saying I am wrong.

May I ask what your problem is with my family background? My mother cannot possibly be the only one being a product of a secret "royal affair" if one read up on history.

Private User

Now if you were to have a grandfather who renounced all titles, for himself, his descendants, shouldn't this also apply to illegitimate children? What gives you the right to use that title?

Note, this is not a personal attack or harassment, just a normal question.

Erica Howton
My titles were awarded me after being DNA matched with all European royal houses in 2017.

Princess Augusta of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg is my 6th great grandmother and that is confirmed by four geneologists from four different countries.
The certificates are signed and sealed by an apponited chancelor and notarious publicus in Australia.

I have nobility and royal lines on both my parents sides (they were cousins) I also have Garsenda DNA.

Hello Marianne,

I was curious about Hans since it seemed as if he was a DNA match directly from FTDNA. (If you click the DNA tab for members who have this public it should show our matches linked from FTDNA and not just how the trees/paper trails line up in Geni.) Hopefully this makes sense. They're two different things, and can be a bit confusing.

I was then wondering why Hans was not being challenged since he has these private lines pointing to Edward, who did not acknowledge any children outside of marriage, so as suggested I have asked about it. Maybe Hans will respond and we can all learn more?

Yes Erica Howton Absolutely! I just wanted to respond to Marianne so she understood as she addressed me.

Erica Howton

Why is it so hard to understand that a person wants to know who their one missing grandparent is? I have spent time everyday (50 + years now) since I was a teenager to try to find the father my mother missed. She died 2015 and I promissed her I would do everything I possible could to find him, and we have.
I am not after money and my titles I got due to all of my reseach results done earlier, long before we found Johann Leopold Saxe-Coburg and Gotha.
I don't want anything, just closure. This I wrote to Prince Andreas of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha also. I don't expect to be greeted with open arms imto the family, but I have a right to have a whole family tree just as everyone else.

By the way, if anyone is wondering Silfverlåås is a Swedish noble name I aquired 2015 due to my research. It was accepted by the Swedish Patentverket and the House of Nobility. My name change was announced in all the major Swedish news papers for anyone to protest againy me using the name, nobody did.

Silfverlåås was enobled by Queen Christina of Sweden in 1647 and one of my ancestors was also her page for many years, even went to Rome with her.

I have a familytree filled with more or less royals and nobility based on paperwork and DNA.
I am starting to wonder, could it be that people are envious.

The attitude and nasty comments here in this thread is getting out of hand and I will be looking into taking this elsewhere "higher up"

Best regards
HSH Lady Marianne Silfverlåås Titular Countess Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg. OM

Private User

Please, there is a huge difference between
Saxe-Coburg and Gotha and
Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg.

My titles was rewarded me and my daughter in 2017 due to my research with tve help of four different reseachers, five years prior to finding Johann Leopold.

Erica Howton
Thank you. I hope this is end of story here.
I don't mind answering questions, but this thread wss rediculus in some cases.

Anyone can contact me privately with questions in a polite and civil maner. If they need to.

Best regards
Marianne

Private User

Thank you for your kind reply. I will forward the suggestion to Thomas Huggins.

Best regards
Marianne

Private User

Well, to say it frankly, I have not suggested any action against you, in any way, but still, prove your DNA connections, https://www.geni.com/projects/I4a1-Mitochondrial-DNA/people/45519
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-M269/story with Johann Leopold, that is all.

I have no idea what group he belongs to, or how you to are connected. Whitout that info I can't tell anything at all, so in fact, I have not dismissed you in any way. All my point is, that if you do not have the paper trail, DNA is the way to any solution.

Best regards
Ulf

Private User

Karrie, can you please contact me privately. I have a message for you.

Best regards
Marianne