Geni Collaboratortion for all!

It looks like another reason to re-think my Pro membership. Collaboration was the deal-maker for me- and now that will be free!

Thank you, as I have had to add others to my "family group" who are not related to my family. They would not let me collaborate on a profile that I had in my blood line unless I added them to my family group. They did not have pro memberships like I do...and for that reason wanted to be on my family group.
This makes my life much easier and makes others in my "living" family group happy as well.
Thanks again.!!!

Collaboration as reported by @Noah Tutak is a great thing and will enhance the opportunity of building a historically correct tree. So we're on a track for improvements. Thanks for that!

But - as pointed out by David Kaleita above - what will we Pro users get instead to continue paying for the Pro service? I suggest that we'd like a swifter response in those many cases where Geni tells that I am "connected" to a certain person, but just cannot report how? That sometimes feels like "torture"...

That's a great point. I'll be removing a whole bunch of people from my invited Family Group as soon as they get the ability to collaborate.

What's the access difference between FG and Collaborator?

David (above) are both FG and collaborators ... is there any reason not to kill the FG connection?

That's great. I love collaborating for everyone. I have so many people in my family group I hesitate posting anything about my children because of that. I also don't start many family discussions regarding research because they don't really relate to the majority in my family group which are 7th generation and beyond (if at all)

People who are not Pro do not see the connected relationship unless it is an absolute direct line. Pro gets quick service from help. Plus Pros can see the hot matches as those who aren't Pro just get a page to subscribe. There are other benefits

Family Group members have the ability to edit LIVING profiles (including zombies) in your core [Geni-defined] "Tree". Collaborators cannot edit any of your living profiles, but they can edit any deceased profiles that you have Manager rights for- even if those profiles are outside of your core Tree.

Sometime even if I'm collaborating with someone and/or even in the same family group as that manager its still doesn’t' guaranty me full access to all of their added/managed profiles. I've been in touch lately with Geni help about it, and I've come to a partial conclusion about it; sometime full access is related to manager permissions settings, and sometime it does related to the way the information was added to the site.

Noah have confirmed that current collaboration will be mutual, which hopefully means that none-Pro users will automatically be added as collaborators to those they have accepted collaboration with.

David it's a bit more complicated than that.

Gene, Collaborators can edit any *deceased* profiles that you manage. You can NOT block them from this access by changing your 'Managed Profiles' settings. They CAN also edit any living profiles you have that are 'Shared'.

Family Group members can edit ANY profiles that you manage, but like everybody else in your tree, are dependent on 'Managed Profiles' settings.

The one major advantage of FG over Collaborators is when handling "zombies" - profiles of people who are dead, but not actually marked as deceased in their profiles. This IS a major issue with many managers, who uploaded GEDCOMs created by wonky software. As such, I will continue to request FG access from people, unless I'm sure this won't be an issue.

[For the curious, here's how to easily find and "kill" zombies: http://www.geni.com/discussions/6000000007144223232 ]

I do love the term, zombies!! I shall go through my tree and make sure that any are lurking in the undergrowth are killed off....in the nicest possible way, of course!! :)

Collaboration for all is a great thing, because as earlier wroten this so called collaboration is not fear as it is now.
There are others benefits with being Pro so for example I'll be Pro as soon it's possible to pay for being Pro in a (secure) way that fits Me.

So what are the recommendations from you guys? I still consider myself a newbie here (I come from ancestry.com and FTM4W).

David: Have you check out the Geni forum yet?

Here is a post I made there that might be helpful to a newbie:
http://forum.geni.com/topic.php?id=57021&page=2#post-532801

I agree entirely with David Kaleita; the Geni system is the best possible, but it also has members who want to go "sideways", looking for cousins, when some of us only want to go back, and then have our work left undisturbed. In my case, back to people alive in 1700, but going back further for my Popes ;-)

I have agreed to share files with people, only to find changes made without asking me, even into other alphabets. It got so bad that I had to unconnect with unknown users in late 2009, some of whom must be genuine, but one cannot know who.

I had largely done my tree in early 2008 before the Pro option was offered, so I don't feel the need to be a Pro. I am otherwise too busy to have to "patrol" my (hundreds of) entries to see if someone has changed them.

Tho' I am not a Pro, the overlap of genealogy and genetics happens to be an interest of mine, and I have sponsored academic research on that. My efforts even have a tiny mention on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Guinness

See also, via David K:
http://forum.geni.com/topic.php?id=57021

I'm interested in both, too, Patrick. I've had some DNA testing done on me and my dad. But I'm one who likes to connect with the world. I wish there were two separate options. One for totally private trees and one for those of us who want to 'be the world!' LOL!

Pretty awesome background. You claim the crown of Israel? Hmmm. ;) Some of my relatives purport to have been from Lithuania but I haven't been able to check anything - all the Holocaust work so far has ignored my particular family. Lots of connections!

Well, the "Kingdom of Jerusalem" was a crusader thing, and only meant to apply to "Latins", of whom there are very few left now. Plus no less than 6 lineages claim the title, so it's not something I obsess about.

My wife's grandfather died at Auschwitz in December 1944, and like you his name isn't on any memorial. Perhaps because he was an anti-zionist and not observant, more of a liberal Berliner.

So my children will be perhaps the first part-Jewish descendants of the crusader kings...

Best, Patrick

Hi Patrick.... your children are not the only "part- Jewish" descendants of the crusader kings....so are mine. We share a great grandmother it looks like. Aleksandra of Lithuania. She is my 21st g- grandmother. And from what is looks like I am one of those irritating distant cousins. We are supposed to be 16th cousins 7 times removed.
And I have many great grandparents in the both the royal and biblical blood lines..that and $3.25 will get me a good cup of coffee. LOl

I promise that I will not merge my tree with you if your name comes up.. I do understand how you feel. However it is nice to meet you. I can't wait to read your work.

I am one of those who look for my whole tree...cousins...filling in the holes. It is nice to work with those in your blood line that can help work on family history. I have been able to find old photo, histories and find missing family that I have meaningful relationships while working on our family tree. They have enriched my life. I am sorry if others have 'messed' up your tree, I will try not to.

And to Marsha,
Looking for my husbands family is a nightmare. It would seem that the records for his family were lost long ago. His father's family left Germany, Russia and Prussia around 1870, or there about. And his mother's side in 1910 (also from Russia). I can't find anything and have nothing but brick walls.

I wish that we would all get along on here, many of us share the same blood lines. It is easier to work together to make sure that the information in our tress is correct. I have always wanted to know about who my family was and where they came from. I asked a lot of questions as a child and still ask them of anyone that can help solve mystery in my family line.

I hope that you have all of the blessings that this New Year can bring to you and yours. And may we all solve the mysteries in our family trees.

best regards,
Terri

Patrick, you got to be kidding! ;-)
Them damn Crusaders spread their genes throughout the Middle-East (and probably and the entire way here, as well). We all make jokes here, about blue-eyed, red-hair Arab children, but I'm sure just as many contemprary local Jews carry the same genes. It's just harder to find them due to most of them now being.... "Arabs" (massive semi-forced conversions circa 1700).

Yes, Terri, I feel your pain. One whole side of the family just says they came from "Russia" and it turned out to be Lithuania. <sigh> One day I'm going to go there (and to Moldavia) and try to find some kind of records. Things are opening up....we just have to keep looking.

Have you done any DNA testing? I use FamilyTreeDNA, which is here in Houston. So far I haven't found any close mtDNA matches. But my dad turns out to be a Cohen from the Israel/Turkey area. It would be interesting to find out how his parents got to Bendery/Tighina, Moldova (Romania). So many mysteries.

Well, we are a league of nations, aren't we?!! One of my g.grandfather's from way back was Solomon Solomon, and another was Isaac Wise. My ancestor from Scotland who arrived in Australia with his parents, married Rachel Solomon. Interestingly, while Lauret's Scottish family were High Kirk and Rachel Jewish, the family in Australia became Catholic. Egalitarian to the core, apparently! :)

Hi Marsha,
I know for sure that my husbands mother's mother was from Russia and we have the town where she was born. I did not find the info until she died and I had to clean out her home. She would never tell us anything about her family though I did try to get it out of her. LOL... She was from a small farming town "out in the middle of no where"...that is how one of my Russian friend describes the town. And she was around 10 years older then she said she was too... so funny how family stories can get twisted.

And yes we are a league of nations here.

I do have a question that no one will answer ...at least the ones I have asked on here. Ok, some of us have really easy blood -family lines to track. I come from the Duvall line here in the states. The Duvall Society has great records on our line, so I have no doubts about the information I get from them and I goes with what I was told as a child and everything I got from my grandparents. But..... how many of us have gone and looked at the featured profiles??? How many have hit that link: "how are you related" and been shocked with what coming back ...that this person and that person are your relations...like GGGGGGG Grandparents?

How accurate are these trees.... not just the royal lines, but the biblical one? No one will tell me...So any one want to go for it??? I think we would all really like to know. If the lines are really right... I am not sure how I feel about what I am finding. I would really like your thoughts in this. Please.

Have a great weekend and happy hunting.

Terri,
I promised to check out your royal connection to the biblical line, but had a lot of merging to do in that area first, so have yet to get to it. I'm sorry. I'm not sure how to measure "accuracy". I do my best to make sure the "main" copy of the biblical tree is true to the sources that we have.

To my dear friend Shmuel,
I passed on your note to my husband...and you have made him very happy. He has been bugging me on this issue. LOL..

I too am working on my very small piece of the puzzle... I have learned more about the Earls of Ormond ...then I could ever wanted to know ( war, war, war and more death and war!)..but happy to take the time and find out about their lives. If I don't research all of this I will not fix a number of merge problems with that family line ...mine..lots of wrong dates.. And I am tracking the Maupas ( de Maupas) family ...they are very hard to find. I will dug them up yet.... : )

If any one has info on them...HELP...I could use it.

Good night all..

Hi Terri!

It's a good and valid question you ask and I will try to answer it as good as possible from my point of view.

It all comes down to how good your sources are, what your information is and how much you trust them.

Most of us in Western Europe and Northern America can pretty easy trace our ancestry back to early 1700 or late 1600 by using church records. Before that we have to find other sources.

If you haven't reached noble famlilies, royal families, clergy or people working high in goverments before the 1500, it's more or less impossible to trace your ancestry before this time. Most farmers, peasants and plain workers didn't leave any records for us to find.

Before 1600-1700 you had to do something out of order to leave a mark in history. Either you had to be in a high position familywise or workwise, or you had to have done something illegal and got punished for it.

It gets even worse to get through the Black Death plague that was around 1350. Around 60% of the population in Europe died, and it didn't matter wether you were rich or poor. Most sources before 1350 should not be taken literally, because there is a lot of stories that are not completely true. Only sources written at the time events happened should be trusted. For instance, Snorre Sturlason that wrote the norwegian kings stories between year 850 and 1177 should not be trusted because it is written a long time after the events. The book is in norwegian called Heimskringla and it is written between 1220-1235. Most of it is fiction.

Since I'm talking about books that tell stories about old times: The Bible, The Qur'an (Koran) and other religious texts that are written a long time after the events should not be trusted.

According to Geni God is my 60th great grandfather: Private then he/she should be living around year 80. That is 80 years after Jesus supposedly was born, as long as a mean age with childbirth is around 30 years. In my view it is impossible and something here is wrong.

Harald Haarfagre http://www.geni.com/people/Harald-H%C3%A5rfagre/3950516705030063754... is one man who supposedly got the whole kingdom of Norway under his rule. He lived approx between 850-935. According to Geni he is my 27th great grandfather, that should meen he was living around 1100 if we give a normal lifespan of 30 years between generations.

You are my 22nd cousin 6 times removed. Since you are only 9 years older than me, it is impossible that we can be 6 generations apart. Our common ancestor is http://www.geni.com/people/Harald-Bl%C3%A5tand-Gormsson/54738826920... Harald Blaatann Gormson and he is my 27th great grandfather, I wonder what he is to you?

Since he is my 27th great grandfather (30 generations from me), it gives a mean age of parenthood of 34.2 years for every person between him and me when next generation is born. That is even too much for 2010.

So, how accurate are these trees? Much of the big tree before 1550 need better sources to be proven right. Biblical tree? Well, I do not think the Bible is proof enough of to say that tree is right, but I haven't been much interested in that part of the tree either. I have enough to work with after 1350.

My opinion, as a pretty serious genealogist, is that if a line is not proven with some credibility, then that line is not to be taken seriously. I know I'm going to be peppered by this statement, but if you can't prove som degree of throuth in what you are printing here on Geni, then just leave it out. I do not see any purpose in bragging about that we are descendants of this and that if it's just a lie.

Sources and how much we trust them are the most important thing we do in genealogy, too bad the managers of Geni haven't understood that yet, and given us an uppertunity to add sources to our data. That is without no doubt the most important thing that is missing from this program yet, and until it is implemented all of you are advised to keep your genealogy data on a real genealogy program on your local harddrive. In my opinion, and maybe a come out a bit strong, but until sourcecitations are implemented, Geni is not a real genealogyprogram and should just be used for the fun of it..... :-)

Remi

Hi Remi....
Thank you!!!
We are supposed to be 22rd cousins, 6 times removed! LOL..That is though my Duvall line, which is my mother's, mother's side. She is the one who gave me the genealogy bug when I was very, very small.

I agree with you..you have to document everything. I have more files cabinet
filled with family history then can fit in my library at this point. And I print out every paper I can find. Land records, court documents, wills, anything that will lead to the truth. I don't always like what I find on my family...but that is just how it is. Who wants to read that towns people were rounded up and put in a church and burned and your family did it!...or someone who may turn out to be a GGGG grandfather killed a King in Ireland.. then died in that same fight? But you have to read everything, document it, find every scrap of paper, turn over every stone. I am lucky that most...not all of my family comes from lines that can be tracked. I am sure that some I will never find,
they were the ones in that church that got burnt... but it is all so very interesting all the same. I am glad that I love history or I would be really hate this work.

I thank you for all you had to say...it answered many of the things that I had already concluded. I look forward to working with you and finding out more about our family and making sure that what we have is right not just for us, but for our children and theirs.

Good night..it is late here and I get up very early.
Terri

Hi Remi and Terri,

I have been following your questions, answers and discussions. Good questions and answers to the discussion.

I agree that if the source is not credible and provable then it is not worth much.
Biblical and other religious book sources are useless in genealogy. Lots of myth involved.

We, and by that I mean every past and present living human, are not all related.......unless of course if we can go back about 60,000+ years. The only thing that connects us all on this GENI Tree (Forest) is the insertion of the Biblical characters of "Adam and Eve".

Have fun and keep hunting.

Bill

http://forum.geni.com/topic.php?id=34681#post-333001

Hello, read this discussion with great interest. I think it's really important that every once in a while we stop and critically discuss the assumptions and the processes that we use. Remi's response is excellent, overall. A couple of things I would add to the "accuracy" question. As Remi says in so many words, a family tree is only as reliable as its documentation. Therefore, you can't generalize about all trees on Geni--some are meticulously researched and documented, and some are just irresponsibly pieced together. But you should be able to easily discern which is which if you read the About Me sections and look to see what degree of detail and specificity the tree has about birth and death dates, locations, etc.

As for the medieval figures and earlier--yes, it is very difficult, if not nearly impossible, to find documentation for "ordinary" people from this time. remember, keeping genealogical records was to serve the interests of the powerful, and they had no interest in genealogies of the serfs or peasants. Genealogies of the nobility and/or important personnages were maintained and recorded, however. One thing I look for is contemporaneous sources--those written closest to the time in which people lived are more likely to be more accurate. Since most of us are not scholars in obscure medieval writings in Latin, for example, the bext database I've found, and the one that reflects (importantly!) any controversies in interpretation, is the Medieval Lands database maintained by Charles Crawley on the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy website. This has become the definitive source for most of us who are working on collaboratively merging the pre-1600 ancestors into one "Big Tree" in a wiki type of project. You can find this at http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ and it is searchable.

Best wishes, and I look forward to hearing more of what you have to say!

Pam