le Botiller, Butler , Earls of Ormond line. Need help.

Private User

1/6/2010 at 3:10 PM

Hi all,

I don't like to ask for help. I like to solve problems on my own. However, I need fresh eyes on this one. I have spend over a year coming back to this and would love to get the matter cleared up once and for all.

I have a Elizabeth le Botiller / Butler (abt: 1420, Ormond, Ireland) who married a John Maupas. They had Sibell /Sybell Maupas abt:1504 London, Middlesex, England

Elizabeth is supposed to be the child of James Butler, 4th Earl of Ormond and Elizabeth Joan Beauchamp.

I have also found that John Maupas, married an unnamed le Botiller / Butler daughter.
That she was the mother of Sibell Maupas.

Then on Tudorplace.com, I found that James Butler 4th Earl of Ormonde and Elizabeth Joan Beauchamp , had the following children: James Butler, John Butler, Thomas Butler, Elizabeth Butler and a Ellen Butler.

Could this Ellen Butler be the real mother of Sebell and wife of John Maupas.

Elizabeth Butler was married to John Talbot. I know that she had a daughter Elizabeth Talbot. She, Elizabeth Butler can't have been married to both, unless she married John Maupas after she was married to John Talbot. But I don't see that anywhere.

All list that the wife of John Maupas was the daughter of James Butler 4th Earl of Ormonde and Elizabeth Joan Beauchamp.

You can see how confusing it can be. I have not been able to clean up this part of my tree, nor add to this part of the family line as I need to take care of these issues 1st.

Thank you ahead of time to those who can help me with this matter.

Best to you all,
Terri

Private User

1/8/2010 at 9:36 AM

I have another thought on this and want feed-back please..help on this would be great....

Now here is what I have, Sibell Maupas -Berkeley (abt:1522-) is the daughter of John Maupas (abt 1486-) and Elizabeth Butler Ormond (le Botiller) (abt: 1420- d Sept 11, 1472)

Elizabeth is supposed to be the child of James Butler (le Botiller), the 4th Earl of Ormond (abt: 1390-1452, married Aug28, 1513) and Elizabeth Joan Beauchampt. (abt 1390- 1430).

Now everywhere I look the only children listed are as follows:
James, John, Thomas and Elizabeth. Their mother died when this Elizabeth was around 10.

Some place list an unnamed daughter that is married to John Mapas. And on Tudorplace.com, they have that daughter listed as Ellen Butler. They do not list her as married to John Mapas.

Now, I know that Joan Elizabeth Beauchampt died in 1430. After that James Butler married Elizabeth (Lady) Joan FitzGeald in 1432.

Here is where I need your thoughts..do you think that perhaps Lady Joan, who's 1st name was also Elizabeth and would have been also listed as
Elizabeth Butler, as the 1st one would have been in places...If the 2rd Elizabeth is the mother of our Elizabeth Le Botiller (Butler) who married John Maupas. It was not uncommon for there to be two children in the same family with the same 1st name after the husband remarried and had more children. I have this in my Duvall family.

I do know that Elizabeth Butler, child of the 1st union, married John Talbot, 2nd Earl of Shrewsbury in 1444, they had 10 children. I find no place that she married John Maupas.

Please let me know what you think on this matter...I want to make sure that the family tree is right, she is one of my many Great Grandmothers.

Anyway, have a good day...and stay warm. It is very cold in VA and we have fresh snow down.

mitchel given

9/16/2011 at 8:22 PM

terry,
am searching family tree from john berkeley and have discovered same discrepancy regarding sibell maupas 's parents. dates don't add upfor eliz. butler. have you made any new progress?.

thanks, mitch given

Erica Howton C

9/16/2011 at 9:06 PM

mitchel given

Can you post a link to the geni profile?

Private User

Do you have any insight?

Private User

9/17/2011 at 8:02 AM

The Butler Society does not list Elizabeth Butler, daughter of the 4th Earl of Ormonde having a husband by the name of Maupas. She was married to Talbot, 2nd Earl of Shrewsbury, and perhaps men by the name of D'Artois?? and then Grey ??. They have question marks by these last two names.
I remember being in a discussion last year about Maupas, but can't remember the informaiton. I'll search for it. Mary

Private User

9/17/2011 at 8:13 AM

http://www.geni.com/discussions/83907?page=1

Here is the link to the previous discussion about Maupas.

John Albert Rigali

8/20/2023 at 6:58 AM

Tagging the project for this issue:

https://www.geni.com/projects/John-Maupas-Sibell-Maupas-Berkely-who...

le Botiller, Butler , Earls of Ormond line. Need help.

Participants:

Create a free account or login to participate in this discussion