Royalty & Nobility

Started by Ofir Friedman on Friday, January 8, 2010


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1/8/2010 at 6:39 AM

Dear Members
For your consideration;
If you don't mind that; then I would like to ask you not to use tree matches, on the big royalty & nobility section.
Also please, do not merge profiles unless you are already collaborating with the other manager.
I came across, today, several merges, which I was able to complete, but were TOTALLY wrong.
The more I work on that section, the more I'm finding out that the only way to resolve such a big mess is to:
A-Try contacting other similar profiles managers. If the same mangers didn't do anything for almost 4 months (regarding the dates of the pending merges)
Then there is no point of merging their managed profiles.
B- Undo many of the already existing merges.
C- Use the tree matches to see on which of the other similar profiles I'm also collaborating on, and then (AND ONLY THEN) merge those profiles together.
If there is more that 1 possible match then work on them separately, one at the time.
D- Please notice that merging tree matches together means that you also need to go to the tree view and complete the merge over there.
Of course all merges needed to be done very carefully after checking every little detail on them, especially on the royalty and nobility trees.
In so many cases just the title or names were the same but the l full name or dates, were very much different.
Much appreciate your help and understandings

1/8/2010 at 6:50 AM

But people usually do not respond to merge requests. They perceive it as a bizarre intrusion or scam- paranoia leads them to ignore such requests, or more likely they add the profile and then exit from Geni. It is more efficient to merge like crazy and kinks will naturally get ironed out if all skilled computer users collaborate on merging.

Private User
1/8/2010 at 9:51 AM

In what parts did you find errors?

I know there is a lot of serious errors in the old nordic lines where patronymic names have let to many merge errors cause by the hot-match functionality and that English speaking people don't understand these naming traditions.

We are a small group of people who are working on these lines, and it would be very nice of others who don't have the knowledge or are basing their knowledge on English websites containing serious errors to stay away ;-)

1/8/2010 at 9:54 AM

Merging requires a counterparty, and if he or she is lay, he or she cannot stay away.

1/8/2010 at 10:35 AM

In general I wasn't referring to any Nordic lines.
The section that I'm working on from about 1500' to the present
Regarding such errors take for example George Charles Spencer-Churchill, 8th Duke of Marlborough
His 3 daughters were merged together along with 2 other unrelated daughters.
About 4 of them had different dates of birth and death
Also 4 of them had the title Lady as their first name and not their displayed name.
2 of them were not sisters but both called Frances.
Take a look at this (I haven’t fixed it yet just undo it first along with other wrong merges)
Lillian Maude Spencer-Churchill and Lillian Maude Spencer-Churchill are the same as is Norah Beatrice Henriette Spencer-Churchill and Norah Beatrice Henriette Spencer-Churchill

1/8/2010 at 11:17 AM

I have a similiar opinion to Ofir, I was looking at some profiles in the English Anglo-Saxon perion ~800-1000 AD and their are many names variations and many incorrect merges. I find that big stacks cause "knots" that bring in bad connections and invariably make fixing it impossible w/o unmerging and pulling back together one at a time. There's another, Beatrice de Vaux I was looking at, for which I am completely convince that there are at least three people by the same name, at least there are three sets of parents.

There is no point to merging managers that don't want to be merged. The reality is that it will cause them a bunch of work and they should not be imposed on without a prior email conversation.

1/8/2010 at 11:28 AM

Because of such merges I almost can never really complete the entire merge.
As you probably all know; when you are merging one person you are required to continue merging several more profiles along the way until you complete all merges on those related profiles. That's very frustrating some time and especially on royalty & nobility section.
I almost could never complete the entire merge to its fullest.

1/8/2010 at 3:32 PM

Happy to be of the proletariat and out of this loop :>)

Private User
1/8/2010 at 3:50 PM

It's particularly difficult to decide what to put re: the names & titles when adding a profile of nobility or royalty when you consider that the names generally were bastardised over the centuries by the English, e.g. another name for Ann Boleyn in England was Nan Bullen....sigh!! Maybe between us, we can come up with some sort of formula when adding such people to our managed profiles? I am very unsure as to the best way to do this, generally adding say: George V, King of the United Kingdom, and then putting in his last name. But I'm sure that there must be a better way? I have thought of adding his title to his nicknames, but as it was an official title, I'm unsure about this. Any advice would be very welcome. And having totally ruined a merge in the Scandinavian line myself, by merging profiles when I really had no idea as to what I was doing, and the repercussions this would have (for which, read: enormous headaches I was causing for the manager of the main profile) cause, I agree with Bjorn....I'm staying away, in the hope that between us all, we will one day end up with a huge and flawless family tree. :)

Private User
1/8/2010 at 4:12 PM

Anne Marit have tried to summarize some of the naming problems here:

Private User
1/8/2010 at 4:20 PM

Many thanks, Bjorn....I shall check this out. :)

1/8/2010 at 8:58 PM

Thanks everyone who participate in this discussion

@Lynne; as it was mentioned before; until we have a tab for titles, the best way is to ONLY write the titles in the displayed name box.

For example George Charles Spencer-Churchill, 8th Duke of Marlborough
First name: George (and not as I saw in many similar cases Duke as first name, which caused several wrong merges)
Middle name: Charles
Last name Spencer-Churchill
Displayed name George Charles Spencer-Churchill, 8th Duke of Marlborough

Please note that There is always the option of the about me tab where you can add information or various pronunciations; in general I think we should use the English language as the base of our work, and add information from other languages in the about me section or in the Nicknames section. such as "the Good Louis" "the 9 days queen" etc.
BTW how do we write such nickname?
The nine days Queen or the 9 days Queen?

Private User
1/8/2010 at 10:16 PM

Thank you, Ofir.....I shall go through all my titled people and do this. It would wipe out a lot of merge issues related to titles if we were all to follow this formula.....and it's so simple!! Again, a million have made my day. :)

Private User
1/8/2010 at 10:21 PM

Further to this, Ofir.....if writing about a king or queen in the display name, would I write, for example, simply "George V, King of the United Kingdom"? I'm open to suggestions....anything that will simplify everything for collaborators and others, as having all these variations is very confusing. I'm particularly anxious to get this right, also, because once I establish exactly which branch of the Boyd family my 5th great-grandmother was from, it is going to open up a whole new line of blood relationships via the Stuarts and Scottish nobility. I just want to get it right. :)

1/8/2010 at 10:42 PM

@ Lynne when working on royalty and not nobility you should try and look online for the most common way of displaying their name.
The nobility profiles are much easier to work with regarding their displayed names.
For example;
So your way of writing George V is correct, although I would add king to the title; or you can add the information in the "about me" section.

Private User
1/9/2010 at 1:32 AM

Thank you, Ofir. I have two "bibles" here, regarding the nobility....Debrett's and Burke's Peerage, very old versions. But it's the royalty where I seem to come unstuck.

1/9/2010 at 12:37 PM

How about the anglo-saxon's where there are multiple spellings, done of which are "English"?

3/3/2010 at 2:06 PM

Anyone have an opinion about the mother of Henry II of England's son Peter Plantagenet, Arch-Deacon Of Lincoln? I want to fix a parent conflict. Rosamond de Clifford or Ykenai?

Private User
3/3/2010 at 3:07 PM

Alison Weir (Britain's Royal Families) has Peter as the son of Ikenai "called a 'common prostitute' but probably the daughter of a knight"

2/16/2011 at 10:22 AM

good discussion;
if all remember to use common sense, then these non-thinking errors should cease.

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