Two daughters named Helen for the 3rd Earl of Athol?

Started by Private User on Saturday, June 12, 2010


  • Private User
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Private User
6/12/2010 at 6:37 PM

My numbering of a "1" and a "2" was because of what I read in an old respected book. My file notes at present contain this, of which only the first paragraph was in place when I listed the children:

Burke's Dormant and Extinct Peerages says: The son and heir, John Stewart, 3rd Earl of Athol, a nobleman of princely hospitality and magnificence, who d in 1542, leaving issue by Grizel ... Rattray, ... m 2ndly. Jean, youngest daughter of John, 6th Lord Forbes, and by her, who m 2ndly Alexander Hay of Dalgety and 3rdly William Leslie of Balquhain, had two daughters ...

See also "He married, firstly, Grizel Rattray, daughter of Sir John Rattray of that Ilk, before October 1533. He married, secondly, Jean Forbes,..."; page lists only two children (Margaret and John) from Grizel and none from Jean. Source is Cokayne "The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant, Extinct or Dormant", new ed., 13 volumes in 14 (1910-1959; reprint in 6 volumes, Gloucester, U.K.: Alan Sutton Publishing, 2000), volume I, page 313

See also, which gives Grizel six children, including Helen - but she marries only John Macfarlane; ref Cahiers de Saint Louis , Dupont, Jacques and Saillot, Jacques , Reference: 861
LEO's other refs for the Earl are:
A Genealogical History of the dormant, abeyant, forfeited and extinct peerages of the British Empire, London, 1866 , Burke, Sir Bernard , Reference: page 509
The Complete Peerage, 1936 , Doubleday, H.A. & Lord Howard de Walden , Reference: vol I page 313.

Maybe someone who has access to A Genealogical History of the dormant, abeyant, forfeited and extinct peerages of the British Empire can look it up. I'm sticking with the two Helens until convincing conflicting evidence appears

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