Berek Herszla or Berek son of Herszla?

Started by Jacob Michael Gryn on Saturday, July 17, 2010

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Jacob Michael Gryn

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Berek Fiszel

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Jacob Michael Gryn

7/17/2010 at 11:42 PM

RE: Unknown Profile / Berek Fiszel

Hi,

It has been brought to my attention that it may be an error that this person is named "Berek Herszla", but should be just "Berek". If you take a look at the father's name, "Herzla", and that the father was still alive when this person was born.

It would seem to be that the JRI record that shows the 2 names together is (Bedzin)
FISZEL Salomon 1818 M 1 15-Jan-1818 Berek Herszla Laja 757305 born 03-Nov-1797 (r. Bedzin 23-Dec-1817)
LONDNER Frometa 1818 M 1 15-Jan-1818 Eyzyk Sara 757305 born 12-Dec-1800 (r. Bedzin 12-Jan-1818)

Other records seem to just show Berek.

Maybe Berek Herszla really means Berek ben Herszla. Other than the death record of a son named Salomon appearing in 1811, do we have any other info on this person's father Herszla?

CC: Private User (other profile manager), Private User (maybe you can provide some assistance?)

Private User

7/18/2010 at 12:07 AM

Berek Herszla means Berek ben Herszel.

Private User

7/18/2010 at 2:10 AM

If you evaluate the ancient FISZEL records then you will state that after 1811 three children with name Hersz were born to Salomon, Marek and Lewek, these latter are definetely Hersz FISZEL's sons. In addition to the 1811 death record of Hersz (with son Salomon as witness) that you mention this is sufficient information to tie them together.
You will not find children with name Hersz born to Berek FISZEL as well as to Moszek FISZEL (both possible children to Hersz). Either their wives had reached the limit of possible pregnancy or only female children were born to them after 1811.
To prove that Berek was son of Hersz you have to inspect Berek's grandchildren. You will find two Hersz firstborn to Berek's sons Salomon and Chaskiel. They had to choose the name of their grandfather Hersz because the father Berek was still alive.
Consequently the interpretation of Barbara is correct.
Hope this will convince you.

Jacob Michael Gryn

7/18/2010 at 3:35 PM

I have made the change from Berek Herszla to just Berek (with the display name as just Berel).

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Berek Herszla or Berek son of Herszla?

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