White/Vassall Family Project

Started by Erica Howton on Sunday, October 10, 2010
Problem with this page?

Participants:

Showing 1-30 of 39 posts
10/10/2010 at 7:07 AM

Descendants of William and Susanna White, "Mayflower" passengers, and John Vassall, owner and builder of the "Mayflower," climb aboard. We'll go backwards in time for ancestors of John Vassall (the Whites parentage is unknown): and forward to present days.

Once we build a clean family tree, who knows what connections and discoveries we'll make.

10/10/2010 at 7:28 AM

The project, White/Vassall family project, is here:

http://www.geni.com/projects/White%252FVassall+Family+Project

For the Whites, the first known ancestors are:

William White, "Mayflower" Passenger

Susanna Winslow, "Mayflower" Passenger

For the Vassall line, we have already geni-traced back to:
Jean III Vassall, Lord of Rignac de Vassall

Private User
10/11/2010 at 7:38 AM

Just found this book about the White family, written in 1895. I want to figure out which Samuel White that is on the cover so I can put it as his profile picture.

http://books.google.com/books?id=NY5bAAAAMAAJ&dq=william%20whit...

Private User
10/11/2010 at 8:19 AM

This book has a lot of detail and is very specific that William White's father is Bishop John White of Leyden and that he was born on July 1, 1612. Reverend was John Robinson. It gives specifics of them getting on the ship, the "Speedwell", which went over to England, where they got on the Mayflower.

Here is another listing his father, Bishop John White, published in 1903
http://books.google.com/books?id=3wjt3eoLPF4C&lpg=PA369&ots...

Another, published 1897
http://books.google.com/books?id=uhFkYm2cErcC&lpg=PA30&ots=...

Private User
10/11/2010 at 11:00 AM

When researching the White family on a trip to Leiden, I got a copy of a book written and published in Leiden entitled: "Newcomers in an old city: The American Pilgrims in Leiden 1609-1620" by Joke Kardux and Eduard van de Bilt, professors at the University of Leiden. It is worth reading for the realistic economic factors involved in financing the Mayflower to come to America and also what the Pilgrims lives were like in Leiden. To my knowledge it is the only book written on the Pilgrims from the other side of the ocean. Have any of you heard of this book?

Private User
10/11/2010 at 11:28 AM

That sounds very interesting. It looks like Google hasn't scanned it in yet. Does it have anything about Bishop John White? It may not because I don't think he left England.

The more I search, the more I find that Bishop John White is William White's father and that it is generally accepted by historians. It can't be proven though, so that's where the confusion comes from. His will references a son that went to the new world, but doesn't say his name.

Private User
10/11/2010 at 5:13 PM
10/11/2010 at 5:38 PM

Is it true that Susanna White was the sister of Edward Fuller which is what the MP says? If so, I'm a relative of hers :) since I'm a direct descendant of Edward Fuller.

Private User
10/11/2010 at 5:45 PM

That one, I have now. It's this one that I can't find: "Newcomers in an old city: The American Pilgrims in Leiden 1609-1620" by Joke Kardux and Eduard van de Bilt, professors at the University of Leiden

I'm very intrigued by page 16 in the book that states that Bishop John White is William White's father. mayflowerhistory.com believes that the marriage was disproved, but they show the marriage date as 27 January 1612. The 1895 book, written by White ancestors state the marriage as July 1, 1612. I wonder if we're on to something. I'm looking for that marriage record. Anyone able to find it?

Private User
10/11/2010 at 10:54 PM

Brendan, I haven't read the book, but can you please tell me where the Whites were living when they were married?

Private User
10/12/2010 at 4:32 AM

William1 son of Bishop John White, mar. Susanna Fuller in Leyden, Holland, July 1, 1612, by Rev. John Robinson. She was a sister of Samuel Fuller who also came in the Mayflower.

Interesting, right? Much of the information in the book came from the family bible.

Private User
10/12/2010 at 5:55 AM

Oh wow, Brendan....a lot of the territory back then was owned by the Dutch, wasn't it? I shall see what I can unearth tomorrow. :))

Private User
10/12/2010 at 6:58 AM

The whole story of Rev. Robinson is in the book I have and the heart breaking goodbyes as he had to stay behind and tend to the rest of the congregation that could not make the trip because of age, infirmities and also room on the ship. He was a well-loved pastor. Many of those left behind returned to England or moved to other Dutch cities. Rev. Robinson was expected to follow the first group as soon as possible, but that did not happen. However he continued to serve as both a spiritual guide and economic adviser to the colonists.
Have you been to Plymouth, MA?
Evelyn in MA

Private User
10/12/2010 at 7:12 AM

Evelyn, I'm really curious when else is in that book. So much has been written on the marriage on 27 January 1612 and how it's not possible that that was the William White and Susanna (Anna) that came over on the Mayflower. But, I can't get past the book written by the White's in 1895 stating that they William and Susanna were married in Leyden on July 1, 1612 and that Susanna was Samuel Fuller's sister. It was the 1800's. It's not like they Google'd and found bad information. It seems like there must be some basis. But, so many people have researched it and believe it's wrong.

Why are the dates different? How could they have known who the Reverend was that married them, if that didn't happen? Any more insight that the book has would be really great.

I have never been to Plymouth. It's only 4 hours away too...

Private User
10/12/2010 at 8:14 AM

Brendan, you must live in Boston. The whole time I was in that city, I never took the opportunity to go to Plymouth. Sort of regret not doing it now.

Private User
10/12/2010 at 9:19 AM

I live about 30 miles North of New York City. I've never been to the statue of Liberty or Ellis Island. When you live near something, you can go anytime, so you never go....

Private User
10/12/2010 at 8:22 PM

More on William White's marriage

Page 260 - http://books.google.com/books?id=f1gMAAAAYAAJ&dq=William%20Whit...

This is from the Massachusetts Historical Society proceeding in 1896. It mentions the 3 William White's in Leyden and identifies the marriage of the Mayflower William White as February 11, 1612 to Susanna Fuller. Nothing more on Susanna's family or William's father.

So, yet another date. They seem to be pretty confident about this one. Very interesting stuff.

Private User
10/13/2010 at 8:30 PM

Update - the tree is cleaning up nicely. Still working on Peregrine's children and then I'll work on the spouses for them and Resolved's children.

I'm getting some great information through direct messages! It really looks like Bishop John White disowned his son William White when he left the church for the new world. It's still a work in progress though. I love all the books from the 1800's that Google scanned in.

At the bottom of page 260, you'll see that the Massachusetts Historical Society found in 1896 that Bishop John White is William's father and that Susanna Fuller is Samuel Fuller's sister. They identified three William White's in Leyden at the time of the marriage of William and Susanna.

http://books.google.com/books?id=f1gMAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA260&dq=W...

Private User
10/14/2010 at 6:45 AM

I added this "sign of the times" to Peregrine and Sarah's timeline:

At the 6 March 1648/9 court Peregrine White and Sara his wife, both of Marshfield, were presented for fornication before marriage.

Oh, those kids...

10/14/2010 at 9:03 AM

LOL!

Private User
10/14/2010 at 10:15 AM

Next thing you know, they'll be listening to that rock music... you know it's coming, don't make me say it... Ply
[System shut down in order to prevent unnecessarily bad pun]

Private User
10/16/2010 at 11:47 AM

I have been entering a whole line of Vassall's that weren't in the tree and got to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Fox,_Baroness_Holland

This is going to get interesting

10/16/2010 at 1:34 PM

That is so neat! I love it when we discover our ancestors and relatives fascinating lives.

Private User
10/30/2010 at 11:55 AM

Deborah Carroll
Got your message. It is likely that Bishop John White is William White's father, so I'm ok with listing him. We need to make sure the About Me section for William White has enough information to justify the link.

Erica Howton
Thoughts?

From everything that I've read, when William White left the church for the new world, his father, Bishop John White, disowned him. In his will, there is mention of a son that left for the new world. We should have a reference to that on their profiles.

Any idea who the mother is? That's an old joke, we know who the father is, but not the mother....

10/30/2010 at 12:02 PM

I agree, source it out. Then we can caveat in a "curator note" that the story is not over but we have made a decision to reflect Bishop John White as William White's father in geni.

Once it's sourced you have my blessing to go ahead and link them up.

10/30/2010 at 12:06 PM

I agree, source it out. Then we can caveat in a "curator note" that the story is not over but we have made a decision to reflect Bishop John White as William White's father in geni.

Once it's sourced you have my blessing to go ahead and link them up.

Private User
10/30/2010 at 12:18 PM

Erica, Are you talking about the Mayflower passenger William White, and the theory that his father is John White? There are tons of references of those names on the Mayflower CD over several generations. Just wanted to clarify before I start searching. Lots of great stuff. I now know how to download and send.

10/30/2010 at 12:37 PM

Totally cool! Can you do that and send to Brendan so he can add to the profiles? Particularly looking for verification that William White's father was Bishop John White, and any reference to whom his mother might have been.

10/30/2010 at 12:40 PM

Totally cool! Can you do that and send to Brendan so he can add to the profiles? Particularly looking for verification that William White's father was Bishop John White, and any reference to whom his mother might have been.

Private User
10/30/2010 at 1:44 PM

There is no mention of the father of William White on the Mayflower CD.

Showing 1-30 of 39 posts

Create a free account or login to participate in this discussion