The Amal Clan of the Ostrogoths

Started by Private User on Friday, November 19, 2010
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Private User
11/19/2010 at 6:07 PM

Okay, this is the big public announcement...

I've finally completed what I consider to be the top of my family tree, the Amal Clan of the Goths and the Ostrogoths. The Amal were the so-called "Royal Family" of the Ostrogoths, starting with King Ostrogotha and King Airmanareiks (Ermanarich, Ermanaric, Jormunrek, etc.), and continuing through (intermittently) to King Walamar, Vidimar, Theodimir, Theoderic the Great, etc. Their earliest known progenitor is Gapt, who was mentioned by Jordanes and Cassiodorus, the first great historians of the Goths (from the 6th century).

To the best of my knowledge, if you are a descendant of Charlemagne's wife, Hildegard of Vinzgouw, Gapt is probably her earliest known ancestor (albeit considered "legendary" as he is not backed by a contemporary documented source - he's backed by what appears to have been some sort of oral tradition documented about 500 years after his lifetime in Jordanes' Getica). He was born near the Baltic Sea in present Poland about the time of Christ's crucifixion.

These profiles all have their own master pages now (many thanks to both curators Justin Swanström and Erica Isabel Howton). Please feel free to browse through. If you have additional SOURCED information, I'd welcome you to include it in the About Me section. I'll be monitoring ("Following") them, of course, preventing "unsourced" attempts to "Vandalize" them.

(By the way Jadranka, I do appreciate the humor - very nice touch; but, in case the changes you attempted were intended to be serious, the only member I know of the Amals to actually join with the Vandals was Amalafreda, Vandalarius' granddaughter - for most of their early history, the Goths and the Vandals were apparently enemies.)

Anyway, these are the profiles that have been recently "Master Profiled" (plus one that Henn Sarv got to much earlier). Much work still to be done in cleaning up the mess at the base of this branch, but hopefully the Amals being established will help us all in getting closer to fixing up this area of the tree.

Progenitors of the Amals:

Gapt, Progenitor of the Amals
Hulmul, Progenitor of the Amals
Augis, Progenitor of the Amals
Amal "The Fortunate"

Early Amals:

Hisarnis "Man of Iron" of the Amal Clan
Ostrogotha "the Patient", King of the Goths
Hunuil of the Goths
Athal "the Mild" of the Greuthungi
Odwulf of the Greunthungi
Achiulf of the Greuthungi
Ansila of the Greuthungi
Ediulf of the Greuthungi

Airmanareiks-Eutharic line:

Airmanareiks, King of the Goths
Hunimund "the Beautiful" of the Ostrogoths
Thorismund "The Chaste" of the Ostrogoths
Berimud, Counselor to Theodorid I of the Visigoths
Wideric, Exiled King of the Ostrogoths
Flavius Eutharicus Cilliga, Consul of Rome

Vultwulf-Amalasuentha line

Vultwulf, Prince of the Greuthungi
Vinitharius "the Just", Warlord of the Ostrogoths
King Walamir of the Ostrogoths
King Vidimir of the Ostrogoths
Vidimir the Younger
Theodomir, king of the Ostrogoths
N.N. Queen of the Ostrogoths
Ereleuva, concubine of Theodimir
Theodoric "the Great," king of the Ostrogoths
Audofledis of the Salian Franks
Amalasuintha of the Ostrogoths
Traguilla (Slave, alleged lover of Amalasuintha)


Amalafreda, Queen of the Vandals
(MP'ed by Henn Sarv on 21 September)
Thrasamund, king of the Vandals

Okay, back to work on my earlier projects... -Ben M. Angel

11/19/2010 at 6:14 PM

<claps and curtsies>

Thank you so much, Ben. This is a huge new contribution to

11/19/2010 at 6:31 PM

This is fantastic - Gapt, Progenitor of the Amals is my 45th great grandfather!

Should we collect these profiles into a project?

Private User
11/19/2010 at 6:43 PM

Hi Noah:

If anyone would like to turn them into a project, I wouldn't object.

As to 45th ggf... seems like Gapt was somewhere in the upper 60s for me when I first added him to the tree in July. May have to scan through the birth and death dates on your lineage there. It's possible, of course:

1980 years / 47 generations = about 42 years per generation. But I'd be guessing that there are probably some generations skipped in that line. Either that or it's very much a paternal lineage...

Ever onward toward a more accurate tree, of course... -Ben.

11/19/2010 at 6:49 PM


I can make the Project IF you give me a good summary URL for the overview to copy and paste.

You should probably also do a very brief explanation of the naming conventions you used.

11/19/2010 at 7:02 PM

Ben, you should path it again. I get 44th gg from Gapt which is consistent with Noah's results: you will get in the same neighborhood.

My lines go through Kings of Scotland, Vikings, and Franks, which have all been going through intense clean up activity.

I have some confidence in accuracy of my pedigree to here:
wife of Alexander Stewart

But there are likely some gaps of course.

11/19/2010 at 11:20 PM

Truly a wonderful addition. Thanks, Ben. It took some doing, but I finally got Geni to find a path to Gapt as a 42nd great grandfather. I'm particularly pleased that you resisted the equation Gapt = Gautr = Odin. (No offense to our Odin fans, I hope.) I have some stuff to send you to help flesh out the detail. Will do that soon, I promise.

11/20/2010 at 12:01 AM

Bravo, Ben! Thanks! I'm loving history more and more - especially when I become part of it. Gapt is a 44th great grandfather.

Private User
11/20/2010 at 1:52 AM

Okay... couldn't find the original lineage I saved, but I retraced it from one I did for Yaroslav Mudriy (Grand Prince of Kiev Rus); will share here starting at Generation 5 (with my daughter being Generation 0 and myself at Generation 1).

The Yaroslav lineage shares the common line through to Hugues de Vermandois, "faint-hearted" leader of the First Crusade. As a key, I've put the generation number first, then the name, then their birth and death years, then where they were, and lastly the year they became parent:

53. Theodomir (425-474, Hungary to Greece, 43)
52. Amalafreda (468-526, Hungary to Frankish Germany, Unknown)
51. Amfleda the Younger of Thuringia (d. 556, Thuringia, Unknown, but it isn’t 10)
50. Rodelinde of Thuringia (510-560, Thuringia to Italy, Unknown)
49. Grasulf of Friuli (d. 571, Lombard Italy, Unknown)
48. Gisulf of Friuli (d. 590, Lombard Italy, Unknown, but it isn’t 12)
47. Daughter of Gisulf (b. 585, Lombard Italy, 15)
46. “Fara of Bavaria” (600-641, Italy to Bavaria, 25)
45. Theodo II von Bayern (625-716, Bavaria, 32)
44. Daughter of Theodo II (657-707, Bavaria, 18)
43. Huoching von Alemannia (675-744, Bavarian Rhine, 60)
42. Imma von Alemannia (735-783, Bavarian Rhine, 23)
41. Hildegard, wife of Charlemagne (758-783, Rhine region, 19)
40. Carloman/Pepin I d’Italie (777-810, Italy, 20)
39. Bernard I d’Italie (797-818, Italy, 18)
38. Pepin I (de Vermandois?, 815-850, Picardy, 33)
37. Heribert I de Vermandois (848-907, Picardy, 32)
36. Beatrix de Vermandois (880-931, Picardy, 18)
35 Hugues the Great (898-956, France, 42)
34. Hugues Capet (940-996, France, 32)
33. Robert II de France (972-1031, France, 36)
32. Henri I de France (1008-1060, France, 45)
31. Hugues I “Le Maisne” de Vermandois (Comte de Vermandois, First Crusade Leader, 1053-1102, Normandy, 35)
30. Isabelle de Warenne (de Vermandois, 1088-1131, Normandy to Surrey England, 32)
29. Gundred de Lancaster (de Warenne, 1120-1166, Surrey England to Northern England, 34)
28. William II de Lancaster (Baron of Kendal, 1154-1184, Northern England, 18)
27. Hawise FitzReinfrid (de Lancaster, 1172-1226, Northern England, 28)
26. Hawise de Brus (de Lancaster, 1200-1246, Northern England, 30)
25. Agnes de Faucomberge (de Brus, 1230-1280, Yorkshire, England, 40)
24. Anice Engaine (de Faucomberge, 1270-1323, Yorkshire, England, Unknown age)
23. Sir John Engaine (Unknown)
22. Elizabeth Pabenham (Engaine, Unknown)
21. Katherine Aylesbury (Pabenham, 1372-1436, West Country, England, 35)
20. Eleanor Stafford (Aylesbury, 1407-1467, West Country, England, 20)
19. Sir Humphrey III Stafford (Yorkist Leader in War of the Roses, 1427-1486, West Country, England, 44)
18. Anne Neville (Stafford, 1471-1513, West Country to Yorkshire, England, 23)
17. Margaret Willoughby (Neville, 1494-1517, West Country, England, 16)
16. Elizabeth Greville (Willoughby, 1510-1562, West Country, England, 45)
15. Catherine Reed (Greville, 1555-1611, West Country, England, 23)
14. Elizabeth Brent (Reed, 1578-1631, West Country England, 34)
13. Anne Calvert (Brent, 1612-1645, West Country England to Maryland Colony, 30)
12. William Calvert (1642-1682, Yorkshire England to Maryland Colony, 26)
11. George Calvert (1668-1739, Maryland to Virginia Colony, 26)
10. George Calvert (1694-1771, Virginia Colony, 30)
9. John Calvert (1724-1788, Virginia Colony, 37)
8. Chloe Jackson (Calvert, 1761-1850, Virginia to Kentucky, 17)
7. William Evan Jackson (1778-1867, Virginia to Kentucky, American Civil War, 46)
6. William Jackson (1824-1883, Kentucky to Indiana, 24)
5. Burrel A. Jackson (1848-1908, Indiana to Wyoming, 47)

The Lombard lineage is a bit messed up at the moment, as people are still merging in with dates that are completely off (probably one of my next projects is to fix all that). And of course the Charlemagne zone between him and Robert I remains a complete mess, with Charlemagne coming up as Robert's grandfather through Adelaide (who died in childhood - neat trick, that).

Now, reviewing earlier correspondence with my wife, Theodomir was originally generation 57, so I lost 4 generations somewhere by cutting out the Jean de Conteville link to the House of Flandres (which is apparently wholly fictitious). But this lineage I've greater confidence in (though the "Fara of Bavaria" link is still weakly supported).

I think another problem area is Argotta. She doesn't come up as a daughter of Theodimir in research, and her apparently lifespan and birthing years are appearing to be frightfully long.

In short, I think everyone coming up with early 40s for generations to Gapt is probably a case of Garbage-In-Garbage-Out. But it at least highlights problem areas in the tree that need fixing.

Okay, now to respond to Erica:

Summary overview? Probably the best ones would be the first three from Hisarnis - the one for Jordanes' Getica, the one for Medlands Hungary Kings, and the one for English Wikipedia's list of Ukrainian Rulers. Also, Hodgkin's work on Theodoric was useful for providing the epithets. Also the link to the Ermanrich the Goth action figure... :)

And a response to Justin: If the research would have supported Gaut, I'd have gone with it (I think I originally did). But there was a good passage that described some pretty strong reasons to go against it (as there was against linking Hulmul to Humble of the Danes and Angles, and Hisarnis to the Celts, though his name is actually Celtic for Iron). In the end, we had only one source for these names and their connections to anything - all else is speculative with nothing to back it.

To everyone else - I'm encouraging you to keep building up the tree. We're getting there...

11/20/2010 at 3:11 AM

PAX/PEACE Dear Mr. Ben, Kind Sir. How are you all doing there today now then, Angel? Well? God bless you real good, Sir. XO I LOVE this line! I have most of what you have, but you have exceeded my research by about 3 generations! XO WOO HOO! We's CUZINS, Mr. Ben! XO This is just the coolest thing since popcorn at the movies! I LOVE IT! Thank you for all of this hard work! Bless your heart! XO

11/20/2010 at 11:39 AM

Thank you Ben!!!!!

Gapt, Progenitor of the Amals is your 48th great grandfather.

Private User
11/20/2010 at 1:08 PM

Thanks Anita, but not by my count... :) (We still need to fix the tree a bit... see above.)

11/21/2010 at 10:50 AM

45 generations through one of my favourite legendary Vikings, Sigurd "snake-in-the-eye".... but that's a minority opinion about Sigurd, not his MP...

Private User
11/21/2010 at 1:15 PM

Which Sigurd is this one? Hadn't known about that lineage into the Ostrogoths...

11/21/2010 at 2:08 PM

Harald, I've seen a few mistakes in the MPs too, such as imaginary daughters where the couple (according) to have had only one known son... and my line came from the imaginary daughter, so that's a 'non-line' right there.

11/21/2010 at 2:09 PM

Harald, I've seen a few mistakes in the MPs too, such as imaginary daughters where the couple (according) to have had only one known son... and my line came from the imaginary daughter, so that's a 'non-line' right there.

11/21/2010 at 5:14 PM

Let's try the validated Snake Eye again:

Sigurd "Snake-in-the-eye" Ragnarsson

11/21/2010 at 5:16 PM

Hmm -- possible mix up here?

Hildur "Hevor" Heidreksdatter

Curator note is : Don't mix up with Hildis of the Vandals.

Private User
11/21/2010 at 7:44 PM

I'd say it's quite likely a mix-up... in any case, Amfleda is targeted as one of the next ones to be worked over more completely, once I get through with all the merge request stuff I'm trying to work through today. (Someday, I'll come back to Salem...)

11/21/2010 at 7:48 PM

I've been finding more witch trials you know. Just not ready to go there.

11/26/2010 at 8:58 AM

Definetly something hokey in the relationship line on Geni.

To see if the problem causing my relationship (48th ggreat-grandfather) had been fixed to closer to what Ben thought it was (mid 50's), I clicked on Gapt's profile again.

Today he is my 17th great aunt's 30th great grandfather....???

Private User
11/26/2010 at 9:23 AM

Sounds like an issue in the Great Capetian-Carolingian War Zone... Of course these will all be taken care of at some point, but this lineage makes a great barometer on the state of the tree.

Private User
11/26/2010 at 9:59 AM

Acutally, I found that Amalasuintha was separated from Theodoric near the bottom of the Amal lineage. I've fused her back into the tree... I'm wondering if that might be the fix on the relationship line...

11/26/2010 at 1:08 PM

I just re-ran it change in my relationship to Gapt.

Private User
11/26/2010 at 1:41 PM

Will keep looking it over... right now I'm trying to get Theodoric untangled... still trying to figure out who Argotta is...

Oh what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to... put a family tree together...

11/26/2010 at 5:05 PM


Remember that the database is re-indexed several times a week, so changes made in the tree -- even a substantial generational change -- may not be immediately reflected.

Private User
11/26/2010 at 5:14 PM

Erica, but I want it NOW! :)

photo owned by Tamara Tucker Swingle
Private User
11/26/2010 at 6:55 PM

You got me so curious about "Snake Eye" I had to check him out. He's my 27th gr grandfather.

11/27/2010 at 6:54 AM, Erica, I didn't know that!

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