Started by Michael Sortomme on Sunday, May 29, 2011


Profiles Mentioned:

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5/29/2011 at 2:09 AM


5/29/2011 at 7:39 AM

You're actually a collaborator on the Gustav Anjou project (, but since the profile is locked, you'll need to work through the curator.

Angus Wood-Salomon, since I know locked profiles typically aren't added to projects, can you perhaps add a curator note saying that the profile information comes from Gustav Anjou's work and is therefore potentially flawed?

Michael Sortomme, can you help Angus out by telling him what corrections need to be made?

5/29/2011 at 9:41 AM

A Curators note was added and this profile was added to the Gustav Anjou's project.

5/29/2011 at 9:44 AM

Fantastic -- thank you, Angus!

5/29/2011 at 9:46 AM

Michael Sortomme
You said
Please explain...

5/29/2011 at 2:00 PM

Thank you, Angus, for adding this profile to the GAP for further discussion! That is exactly what I was trying to do last night at 3 AM. I apprecaite your help!

Katherine Allen is a very disputed person, as you know, Angus. She was, originally (it feels like a different lifetime now, the tree changes so often these days) a grandmother, now is some sort of distant relation to another branch of the Allens unknown to me. When I was notified automatically by Geni software and found another incarnation of Katherine, added by Chris B, my 10th cousin through the Goodspeed line, I thought it deserved lots of attention!

This is a good example of the problem with Anjou's material; it creeps in unexpectedly and causes much doubt and frustration. I am sorry if I wasn't clear in my posting. I have been posting lately because of breakthroughs in my personal family tree, but, clearly, it is time to back down and get back to my real work.

Y'all have a good day!

5/29/2011 at 4:06 PM

Michael, I think Angus is looking to know if there are specific things he can go ahead and change/correct now. Do you know of precise corrections to be made to the information that's there right now?

It currently says that she was born in 1604 in Woking, Surrey, England and died on June 7, 1656 in Boston, Suffolk, MA. It also says she was the wife of George Allen and the mother of Samuel Allen, William Allen, Matthew Allen, Rose Allen, and Ralph Allen.

Does that all sound about right, or do you know of more accurate info?

5/30/2011 at 1:44 AM

Below are just 2 examples of the places Katherine Starkes Allen takes on the tree, plus one for a once "mother" of George Allen Sr--notice the names, they are the same. I include these profiles only as examples of how many times the same people have changed places, info deleted, managers changed, duplicates too numerous to mention, etc. She is my grandmother, but, since September, she has been a relative, an aunt, a cousin of every sort, from 1st to 10th. All the while, I know she's my grandmother.

When I created a profile for Katherine Starkes Allen, last year (its long gone now) my grandmother and wife of George Allen Sr., she was his second wife and mother to his last 5 children (called his lesser) of a total of 13. I found this info (and posted it to George Allen Sr. profile, along with lots of other goodies) through the Allen Family records and the New England Historical Society, through a link on, from inner-searches there. KSA, according to what I saw, was related to the Wyatts through her mother. Now, (see below) there is a profile for KSA as George Allen Sr. mother. Okay, I know we have fewer grandparents than most, but that is kind of ridiculous. If you look closely, some of these profiles are clearly other people. Their dates and places change, but, all those people can’t be everything to everyone and still go by the same name and have the same children.

To be honest, Ashley, I don't know what to think anymore, regarding the Allen/Starkes/Wyatt lines. The tree has morphed so much, the same people have danced around so often, 20,000 less ancestors on my tree in the last 2 weeks and it is not any clearer than it was in September 2010, when profiles started to evaporate and change beyond recognition.

Don't get me wrong, y'all. I know being a curator is a thankless, demanding job that only big-brained, tough-skinned people can handle. I would NEVER be right for the job--too difficult, to be sure! I respect y'all and what you do. Know that when I holler, it’s out of frustration, not anger.

There are problems that keep getting worse on some lines and the Allen-Starke mess is just one example. New England Colonial America is a mess! I take it personally, of course, since many are my people (yours too), but I understand I have an emotional attachment that is different from people not related to them. In some ways, I wish we could wipe some Anjou involved lines completely away and start afresh, based on the verified info of NEGS. That would be a good start, if we can separate fact from fiction.

Didn't I promise NOT to post for awhile last night at 3AM? Yep, I did and here we go again...

Be good to yourselves this coming week and thanks a bunch for all you do!!!

Katherine (1605 b. Surrey England- d. Sandwich, Barnstable, MA) Allen (Starkes)
Place of Burial: England
Birth: 1605
Woking, Surrey, England
Death: circa 1656 (51)
Sandwich, Barnstable, Massachusetts, USA
Katherine 1563 (Colby, Norfolk, UK -d. Windsor, Hartford, CT) Allen (Starkes)
Birth: circa 1563
Colby, Norfolk, UK
Death: August 5, 1649 (86)
Windsor, Hartford, CT, USA
Immediate Family:
Wife of Reginald 1563 bad. England Allen
Mother of George Allen

Added by: Thomas Palmer on February 5, 2009

Managed by: Martin Severing Eriksen and 3 others

Curated by: Angus Wood-Salomon
Margaret Allen (Wyatt) (1569 - 1642)
Birth: November 7, 1569 - Braun ton, Devon,, England
Death: 1642 (73) - Hartford, CT, USA
Immediate Family: Daughter of Walter Wyatt and Joan Milford
Wife of Ralph Allen
Mother of George Allen, Walter ALLEN, John ALLEN and William ALLEN

Added by: Richard Metcalf on Jul 20, 2008

Managed by: Sally Thomas, Eileen Patricia Burroughs, Virginia Diane McClure, Richard Maddox Metcalf, Margaret Whitman and Philip Richard Greenback, Jr.

5/30/2011 at 10:18 AM

Justin Swanström
Justin I just wanted you to be aware of this discussion

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