Austrian and German Nobility/Aristocracy and Naming Conventions

Started by Randy Schoenberg on Thursday, July 28, 2011


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7/28/2011 at 8:34 AM

I was venturing into some of the Austrian aristocracy and noticed that the names, especially the display names, of most of the master profiles do not follow the naming convention of Geni that the titles be in the original language

See, for example,

Empress Elisabeth of Austria / Elisabeth von Österreich-Ungarn

Notice that her immediate family is all in English too

Daughter of Maximilian Joseph von Wittelsbach, Herzog in Bayern (Pfalz-Birkenfeld-Gelnhausen, Wittelsbach) and HRH Princess Ludovika of Bavaria
Wife of H.I.M. Franz Josef I, Emperor of Austria & King of Hungary
Mother of Archduchess Sophie of Austria; Gisela Louise Marie of Austria, Princess of Bavaria; Rudolf, Crown Prince of Austria and Archduchess Marie Valerie of Austria
Sister of Ludwig Wilhelm Herzog in Bayern; Wilhelm Karl Herzog in Bayern; Duchess Helene Caroline Therese in Bavaria, Hereditary Princess of Thurn and Taxis; Karl Theodor, Duke in Bavaria; HRH Marie Sophie Amalie, Duchess in Bavaria; Duchess Mathilde Ludovika in Bavaria, Countess of Trani; Maximilian Herzog in Bayern; Sophie Charlotte Augustine of Bavaria, Duchess of Alençon; Duke Maximilian Emanuel in Bavaria; Duchess Marie Sophie Amalie, Wittelsbach of Bayern and Duchess Helene Wittelsbach of Bavaria, Hereditary Princess of Thurn and Taxis « less

Should this be corrected? I suspect the use of English is deterring more informed German-speaking genealogists from joining in and completing the tree.


7/28/2011 at 1:37 PM

Randy - beyond the obvious errors you pointed out, I have noticed that the actual Germany relatives of mine using the titles today are not too swift with the distinctions either - women born baronesses using Frauherr, for example, instead of Freiin.

7/29/2011 at 7:34 AM

I thought this issue was being taken care of once the "alternative name fields" will be available, so that the names can be inserted in all it's many permutations to allow for easy "search" by all users?

7/29/2011 at 9:58 AM

The "nickname" field has been renamed "Also Known As" and moved to the "Basics" tab. The separator is the comma (,). In addition the "Display Name" field can be used.

So yes, I believe Austrian and German names can follow the conventions used on the Wiki:

And a section for German names could be inserted.

7/29/2011 at 11:30 AM

Ofir Friedman
you are Curating this part of the tree what is your opinion?

7/29/2011 at 11:31 AM

By the way Randy I agree

7/29/2011 at 1:06 PM

I am entering someone known perhaps commonly as "Freiderich Max Frieherr von Krefeld". Am I correctly interpreting the naming conventions as follows?

Firstname: Freiderich
Middle Name: Max
Surname: von Krefeld

7/29/2011 at 1:08 PM

Suffix: Freiherr
Such that it would read:
"Freiderich Max von Krefeld, Freiherr" ?


7/29/2011 at 4:08 PM

Adam, in my opinion your example should be as followed

Firstname: Freiderich
Middle Name: Max
Surname: von Krefeld
Suffix: none

in the display name you can write
Freiderich Max, Frieherr von Krefeld

Frieherr Freiderich Max von Krefeld

or another way can be

Firstname: Freiderich
Middle Name: Max
Surname: von Krefeld
Suffix: Frieherr von Krefeld

in my opinion Frieherr is not part of the last name /surname

7/29/2011 at 4:10 PM

last line should read
"in my opinion Frieherr is not part of the last name /surname field"

Private User
7/30/2011 at 12:42 AM

Randy, though intended for Medieval Europe, this project details some good guidelines for European Royalty, very much in line with Ofri's suggestions:

8/10/2011 at 12:46 AM


8/10/2011 at 12:50 AM

My proposal is for Frieherr, Dr., Sir etc - that we need Prefix field also!!!
Until we will wait it, we can use [Freiherr] in fist-name field just before the first name etc.

Private User
8/10/2011 at 1:25 AM

Lauri Kreen. putting titles in the first name filed is exactly the opposite of what we promote.

8/10/2011 at 1:35 AM

frieherr on suffiksi

8/10/2011 at 8:34 AM

Private User
Can be so, but then it is reasonable to request and have the Prefix field.

Private User
8/10/2011 at 11:15 AM

And until then, we tell people to put prefixes in the display name.

8/11/2011 at 5:18 AM

DIsplay name has its limitations, specifically Geni makes it possible to have a tree preference that shows the actual name, and hence this important information, such as Frieherr, Rabbi, General, etc is not visibile. Similarly, entering titles in the display name requires a second entry as it cannot be done in a persons initial setup through the tree. I have been trying out the "suffix" solution to adding inherited and honorary titles this week and have been very happy with it, particularly as it does not appear to cause any false hits with search or matching.

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