Joseph Carpenter and Hannah Carpenter (circa 1630/1640)

Started by Private User on Thursday, August 25, 2011


Profiles Mentioned:

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Private User
8/25/2011 at 9:15 PM

I'd like to propose that we work on untangling some of the Carpenter Ancestors that are horribly intertwined right now on Geni. I personally think that the curators did a **GREAT** job at putting a note above William Carpenter, of Rehoboth 's profile to help differentiate him from the 'other' William Carpenter's of the same era. I believe a similar notation on some of the more confused profiles would help tremendously too. Who can add these notes? Curators?

I am noticing that in particular, there are two Joseph Carpenter's from this era and one is the brother of Hannah Carpenter Hannah (Carpenter) Carpenter, and one is the husband (and cousin!) of the same Hannah Carpenter. Due to this confusion, I am seeing that siblings and everything else that propagates downwards from this is not entirely correct as some users are not noticing the subtle distinction between these two Joseph Carpenter's. (Heck, it took me a little while to recognize that these were two separate individuals!). For example, I am seeing some siblings that belong to Joseph#1 being assigned to Joseph #2, and dates and other supporting data points are also a hybrid of the two.

Although I have been on Geni for quite a while as a Pro user, this is my first project, and I am a little gun shy about going in and splitting the tree, and attempting to reconnect it correctly.
Does anyone have experience in this regard?
What is the best way to do this?
Are there special tools that the curators have that make this exercise easier?

Kind of a bigger question nagging in the back of my mind is given the collaborative nature of Geni, how do we prevent future users from going back in and proposing (and accepting!) new merges to simply undo everything that we straighten out? Do we just have to accept that possibility that are hard work can be changed by someone (intentionally or through innocent mistakes)? At some point I would think that profiles (MP?) get locked down once all the data has been vetted and verified....

Anyway, back to these two Joe's.....
I have the data and supporting documentation that delineates the differences between these two, but I am not sure what the next step is?

I **do** think that putting a similar disclaimer on BOTH profiles would go a long way to helping those who come later to understand the difference and to which branch they may belong.


Unknown Profile
Joseph Carpenter
(The most glaring duplication is that they both list Hannah Carpenter as a wife, but there's so much more that's wrong....)

Joseph Carpenter, of Musketa Cove

Yours truly
Joe Carpenter (Yeah, the irony isn't lost on me!)

Private User
8/25/2011 at 9:30 PM

Joe, thank you so much for posting about this! A couple of us curators are aware of the huge Carpenter mess and are working on untangling it. I'm mostly away from Geni right now and accessing the site from my phone, but Erica Horton should arrive shortly to give her input.

A lot of the problems stem from bad merges, so some of it might be easiest to fix by waiting just a little bit longer for merge undo to be released. I'll look at the profiles you linked, however, to see if there's anything else we can do for now.

Private User
8/25/2011 at 9:30 PM

Howton! Autocorrect is terrible.

8/25/2011 at 9:58 PM

Tell me about that auto correct!

More complete reversion tools are in the works, but I have a whole carpentry set on my curator ID to help out. Suggestions.

- upload documents to support sourced facts. At merge time it makes a lot of difference. Also, procedurally, it's building a profile from the facts on out.

- cite sources in the overview.

- post links (URLs of the profiles) to a discussion, makes it a whole lot easier to find.

- use the display name field to disambiguate similar names. As you can see, topographics are really helpful.

- you can't merge

8/25/2011 at 10:00 PM

You can't merge two master profiles together. Once we're sure there's a good shell, we can start from there.

Search the geni database for duplicates. I've found all kinds of helpful tidbits lurking there.

8/25/2011 at 10:03 PM

To answer the locked fields question, that's recently been implemented. I won't lock a field down until sourced, of course. The beauty of the tool is that it's field by field, so if you only have found a baptism date / place, for example, we can go ahead and lock that field, leaving,csay, death date for further research.

<private> McCann
8/25/2011 at 11:39 PM

erica... quick question.. earliest carpenter in my family tree and ... caleb 1769-1848.. i suspect joe and hanah may be his great-grandparents or great-great grandparents.. as the death date on joesph is three years before have you info? here is what i have born 16 Sep 1769 in , Windham, VT died 4 Apr 1848 st lawrence co (loiusvile?) husband of mary Ballou born 18 Apr 1773 ma? died 1850 does anybody know of this carpenter?

8/26/2011 at 6:56 AM

Hi Michael

All I know is in Geni!

Private User
8/26/2011 at 8:43 AM

Thanks for the quick replies on this. The locked field sounds like a great place to start and I think that only locking those fields (once you have supporting docs as proof) will be enormously helpful. I have been uploading source docs quite a bit recently on my immediate tree, and I've found it to be quite helpful.

I'lll go through and start poking around with the William Carpenter's and the profiles in and around them and slowly work down, trying to verify information, add sources, and make corrections as needed. In the short term, @Erica / @Ashley , what are your thoughts about inserting a descriptive 'warning' or something at the top of the 2 Joseph Carpenter profiles that I mentioned? Do you think it would help stop any further erroneous merges or should we just hold off?


<private> McCann
8/26/2011 at 11:32 AM

thanks Erica "the Disconnectrix" Howton as a non-pro i can't tell when things are related and via whom so it makes it all the more difficult..

8/26/2011 at 11:49 AM

Private User

I'm cleaning up Carpenters. I think the solution is to make Master Profiles of every Joe Carpenter, including you. :)

If you see the links above, I've added place names to the two Joes.


Private User
8/26/2011 at 12:16 PM

sweet! Thanks so much! I'll be poking around trying to adjust a few things this weekend too. Let me know if you need help with anything, be happy to help out where I can.

8/26/2011 at 1:31 PM

Document and overview. If the facts are there it makes it much, much easier to correct relationships.

Another trick is to search the database and merge together profile by profile. That way you can more easily figure out which fragment goes with which, and build a family story.

Private User
8/27/2011 at 2:28 PM

Found another incorrect marriage between Joseph and his sister (ewwww).

source document attached to Joseph Carpenter proves that he had only one wife, Margaret Sutton.

I believe that the Hannah Carpenter listed on this profile is in fact his sister and that he was indvertantly listed as her husband instead of the Joseph Carpenter of Oyster Bay. Joseph Carpenter, of Musketa Cove

I need a curator's super powers to fix (please!)

8/27/2011 at 3:11 PM

Done. Hannah (Carpenter) Carpenter

Actually is was a second cousin marriage,

Private User
8/27/2011 at 3:21 PM

Thanks Erica for doing all this, you are a SuperStar (best said with 'jazz hands')

Here's another Curator only issue. [6000000000426548507] is currently locked, but I noticed that at least the birth year is off by a couple of years. Should be circa 1638, vice 1644.

Source document added and states
"BIRTH: A 1995 journal article makes a strong circumstantial case that Samuel was born
about 1638, rather than 1644, as often said (see TAG 70:195–97; also, for example, Carpenter [1898] 48). The article’s author (this writer) has since confirmed this conclusion,
having discovered that Samuel Carpenter was sworn a Grand Enquest juryman at Plymouth on 4 June 1661 (PCR 3:215). In that the age requirement for holding public office
was twenty-one, Samuel must have been born by 4 June 1640. But since his sister Hannah was born in April of that year, it is appropriate to estimate Samuel’s birth year as
about 1638. A brother of the same name had died as an infant at Shalbourne, England, in
1637 (TAG 70:194, 196, 204; see also William2
of Rehoboth sketch, CHILDREN)."

Private User
8/27/2011 at 3:22 PM

That previous discussion should have linked to Samuel Carpenter

<private> McCann
8/27/2011 at 3:45 PM

Private User looking for parents of a caleb carpenter 1769-1848 do you think he could be from samuel carpenter sr's kids?

<private> McCann
8/27/2011 at 3:46 PM

sorry didn't mean to tag you.

Private User
8/27/2011 at 6:45 PM

<private> McCann Regarding Caleb, I'm not sure. Everything I have is documented here in Geni. Have you looked at the source files for Samuel Carpenter? ( That document will list his immediate family.

<private> McCann
8/27/2011 at 7:12 PM

samuel carpenter sr would be my 13th cousin 11 times removed and no i looked thru them not a match just thought maybe backtracking from my carpenter it might be related great-great or somthing...

8/28/2011 at 9:55 AM

Samuel Carpenter has been updated. The sourced fields are now locked rather than the whole profile. I added the findagrave record as a source for death, burial, location, etc. Interestingly they dont have a photo of the S.C. Fieldstone, and I know I've seen it before. It would be great to add to the profile.

8/28/2011 at 10:10 AM

<private> McCann

Your Caleb Carpenter descends from Joseph Carpenter

Private User
8/28/2011 at 3:40 PM

Thanks for updating the Samuel Carpenter profile. I haven't seen the gravestone that you mentioned, but interesting enough, I came across Margaret Carpenter (Sutton) headstone, but it turns out it in fact isn't hers (I already emailed the profile manager about removing it....)

<private> McCann
8/28/2011 at 4:29 PM

Erica "the Disconnectrix" Howton thanks i thought it might be thru samuel or his father or his family but was not sure.. i now have the info to add to that line since you allready have those on file.. just a matter of time permitting me so many projects so little time..

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