Jean de Conteville, comte de Commines

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Jean de Conteville, comte de Commines

French: Jean de conteville, comte de Commines
Also Known As: "Jean de Conteville", "Jean de Bourg", "Jean de Burgo", "Jean de Tonsburgh", "Earl of Comwyn (Comyn)", "John (of Tonsburgh) de Bourg", "Jean de Bourg de Conteville", "Earl of Comyn Sir John or Jean De Cumyn", "greve", "baron de Tonsberg", "earl of Comyn"
Birthdate:
Birthplace: Conteville, Calvados, Basse-Normandie, France
Death: Died in Conteville, Eure, Normandy, France
Immediate Family:

Son of N.N. N.N. and N.N. N.N.
Husband of Adeline de conteville and Harlette de Melan
Father of John de Comyn (Cumyn/Cumin); Oda de Conteville; Herluin, Count of Conteville; Agnes Peverel; Martine de Conteville and 6 others
Brother of Raoul de Conteville

Occupation: Chevalier, Comte, de Comyn, Sieur, de Tonsburgh, Vicomte de Comyn, baron de Conteville, Earl of Comyn, Baron of Tonsburgh
Managed by: Erin Spiceland
Last Updated:

About Jean de Conteville, comte de Commines

Jean of Conteville is a fictional person created to be the father of Harlowen/Herluin, viscount of Conteville. He was supposedly a son of Boudewijn III of Flanders and Mathilde of Saxony.

Jean de Conteville[1]

b. 969

Also called Jean de Conteville.[2]

Jean de Conteville was born in 969.

Family

Children

1. Oda de Conteville+ b. c 994[2]

2. Herluin de Conteville+ b. 1001, d. c 1066 [3]

Citations

1. [S204] Roderick W. Stuart, RfC, 160-33.

2. [S682] D.S.O. Lt.-Col. W. H. Turton, Turton, pg. 100.

3. [S603] C.B., LL.D., Ulster King of Arms Sir Bernard Burke, B:xP, pg. 88.

Jean de Conteville's alleged relationship to a Count of Flanders (son?) seems to be an invention, his parentage is not known. [more info anyone?]


Jean de Conteville. Earl of Comyn? Jean de Bourg?


From: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=aet-t&id=I72104

(Apparently this link is out of date...)

ID: I72104

Name: Jean De Conteville Viscomte de Comyn

Surname: De Conteville

Given Name: Jean

Suffix: Viscomte de Comyn

Sex: M

Birth: 0959 in Tonsburgh & Comyn, Normandy, France

_UID: B5B527DE8B5C61488E3BE715FED264675F9A

Birth: 0959

AKA Jean de Conteville. Baron of Tonsburgh in Normandy.

General of the French King's forces & governor of his chieftowns.

[Please identify which French King...]

Descendants include Baldwin, 2nd King of Jerusalem.

  • *******************************

John, Earl of Comyn, and Baron of Tonsburgh, in Normandy, being general of the king's forces and governor of his chief towns, there obtained the surname "De Burgh," and took his motto, "Ung roy, ung foy, ung loy," from that of Caen, a chief town in his jurisdiction.

He had issue. The eldest son, Harlowen de Burgh, m. Arlotta, mother of William the Conqueror, and dying before his father, left issue, Odo, bishop of Bayeux, created Earl of Kent, and Robert, Earl of Moreton, in Normandy, who, participating with his brother, the bishop of Bayeux, in the triumph of Hastings, was rewarded by his virtuous kinsman, Duke William, with the Earldom of Cornwall, anno 1068, and grants of not less than seven hundred and ninety-three manors. This nobleman m. Maud, dau. of Roger de Montgomery, Earl of Shrewsbury, and had issue, William, his successor, and three daus.

[Sir Bernard Burke, Dormant and Extinct Peerages, Burke's Peerage, Ltd., London, 1883, p. 88, Burgh, Earl of Kent]

[1] [2]

Change Date: 20 Dec 2005 at 00:00:00

Father: Baudouin III Count de Flanders & Artoi

b: 0933 in Fflandrys, France

Mother: Matilda de Burgundy Billung

b: in Burgundy, France

Marriage 1 Spouse Unknown

Children

1. Harlevin (Herlouin) De Conteville Viscomte de Conteville

b: 1001 in Conteville, Normandy, France

(has children)

2. Eustace De Burgo

b: ABT 1005

(has no children)

3. Oda De Conteville

b: 0994 in Mellent, Normandy, France

(has children)

4. Baldwin le Bourg Count de Rethel

(has children)

Sources:

1. Repository (LDS?):

Title: The Plantagenet Ancestry, by William Henry Turton {1968}

Note: Source Media Type: Book

Page: 8, 100

2. Title: A Genealogical History of the Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages of the British Empire

Author: Sir Bernard Burke, C.B, LL.D

Publication: Harrison, 1883

Page: 88, Burgh, Earl of Kent


Not at all clear how this person connects with the House of Flanders, a very old lineage that descends in part from Emperor of the Romans Charlemagne. The connection is asserted by the Celtic Casimir online family tree:

http://www.celtic-casimir.com/webtree/3/3142.htm

Earl Jean DE CONTEVILLE vicomte de Comyn 1055

Born: Abt 962, Tonsburgh & Comyn, Normandy, France 1055

Ancestral File Number: 8JF1-G8.

Marriage Information:

Jean married Unnamed Dame de Meullant. (Unnamed Dame de Meullant was born about 974 in Mellent, Normandy, France.)


http://boards.ancestry.com/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=99&p=topics.medieval.general

Jean de Conteville

rgwhite4   (View posts)

Posted: 25 Feb 2003 8:34PM GMT Classification: Query I've been trying to find out the parentage of Jean de Conteville, father of Herluin who married the mother of William the Conquerer and I've found three differing answers. I haven't made the trek to a library big enough to have good reference books on the subject, but thought I'd ask you for your thoughts.

1)I've seen lines that stop with Jean. 2)I've seen his father given as Baldwin III of Flanders (and then up to Charlemagne) 3)I've seen his father given as Baldwin II of Blois (and then up to Charlemagne)

Does anyone know? or can you give me a hint on what book(s) to look up at the New York Public Library?

Thanks =)

 

Re: Jean de Conteville

trebuchet   (View posts)

Posted: 26 Feb 2003 5:18AM GMT Classification: Query Edited: 23 Dec 2003 10:12PM GMT First, Baldwin III of Flanders would be unlikely for a couple of reasons. He married, in 961, at age 20, and died Jan. 1, 962 (ES, AR7). His only child, his son Arnulf II, was born that same year, quite likely posthumously. Jean de Conteville was born ca 969, and assuming that’s correct, that’s 8 years after Baldwin III died. The information that Jean was the son of Baldwin II of Blois seems to work datewise, but is a little thin on proof. So as a result, some sources stop at Jean de Conteville (Planché, Turton), while some don’t go even that far (notably Moriarty & CP) stopping at his father, Herluin.

The sources mentioned here are ES (Schwennicke, Europäische Stammtafeln), AR7 (Weis, Ancestral Roots, 7th Edition), Planché (The Conqueror and His Companions), Turton (The Plantagenet Ancestry), Moriarty (The Plantagenet Ancestry of King Edward III and Queen Philippa) and CP (Cokayne, The Complete Peerage). Most if not all should be available at the New York Public Library. If you need more detailed citations, just ask.

Jim

 

Re: Jean de Conteville

rgwhite4   (View posts)

Posted: 26 Feb 2003 3:14PM GMT Classification: Query Ah thanks for the reply. Those should be good for starters. I can't wait to delve into them.

 

Re: Jean de Conteville

trebuchet   (View posts)

Posted: 26 Feb 2003 5:01PM GMT Classification: Query Edited: 23 Dec 2003 10:12PM GMT The only credible source I know of that lists the lineage from Charlemagne to Jean (John) de Conteville is "The Pedigree of The Right Honourable Smith Burke, Earl of Clanrickard, Viscount Clanmorris and Baron of Dunkellin and John Bourke, Lord Viscount Mayo", A.D. 1748. What I have is a bound copy of the original manuscript, privately published, on loan from a Burke family researcher. You may have some trouble in locating a copy since there are apparently very few in existence. If so, I can transcribe the information on this connection as it appears in the manuscript. It's less than half a page in length so it won't be too much trouble.

Another quality source you should be able to find in the NY library is: Lewis C. Loyd, "The Origins of Some Anglo-Norman Families," Edited by Charles Travis Clay and David C. Douglas, Genealogical Publishing Co., Baltimore, 1975. The article on the family of Conteville (there were two of them), Specifically Conteville of Somerset, is on page 31 and details the family from Herluin without mention of his father Jean de Conteville. But it does fill in additional details on the family and lists his second wife, Fredescendis, as well as a son, Ralf. More details on this connection are found in ES III:694B. Please let me know if you find any new (quality) sources or any additional information on this connection--it's one of mine also. Thanks.

Jim

 

Re: Jean de Conteville Robert White (View posts) Posted: 27 Feb 2003 3:40PM GMT Classification: Query I will surely pass on anything I find. I've only very recently discovered this line and I'm still in the midst of verifying it. This is the first line I've been able to get beyond about the Tudor years with any degree of certainty, and so medieval genealogy is not my strong suit. I thank you for advice, and if it's not too much trouble would love a transcription from that Burke book. My email address is rgwhite4@yahoo.com if that's better than here. Thanks again.

--------------------------

From: taf@clearwire.net Subject: Re: Parents of Herluin De Conteville Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:28:28 -0700 References: <1193588696.519491.244390@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <1193588696.519491.244390@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 28, 9:24 am, viridmont...@gmail.com wrote:

William the Conqueror's mother was Herleva of Falaise, supposedly the daughter of a tanner who had a liaison with William's father, the Duke of Normandy. William was born out of wedlock but he was the Duke's only son so he inherited the Dukedom of Normandy. Herleva's liaison with the Duke didn't last but it raised her social standing and she subsequently married Herluin De Conteville, a member of the nobility. In some sources Herluin's parents are listed as King Robert II Capet of France and Bertha of Burgundy, though other sources say that Robert and Bertha had only a short marriage, it being annulled because of consanguity with no surviving children. Other sources list Herluin's father as Earl Jean De Conteville but don't list his mother. I'm wondering if anyone has any further information concerning Herluin's parentage.

There is no source close to contemporary that provides any such information. As to being the son of Robert of France, this comes from someone with more enthusiasm than sense or integrity. The John version is seen widely, but is entirely unsupported (and while we are at it, there were no Earls in Normandy at the time). In terms of true contemporary records, there are none, althought the near-contemporary Norman chroniclers mention him only in the context of his marriage to Herleve and as father of Eudes and Robert. There are later confirmations of abbey foundations which attribute their foundations to him, and there is nothing inherently unlikely in these that would suggest forgery. Even these fail to name parents, just a second wife, Fredesende, and two sons.

The best modern summary I have seen is: Bates, David. "Notes sur l'aristocratie normande: Hugues, vque de Bayeux (1011 env. - 1049) et Herluin de Conteville et sa famille." Annales de Normandie 23 (1973): 7-38.

I see that the Robert and Bertha version is the one shown by Wikipedia. The same overly-enthusiastic editor who made this change has also obliterated any historical content in the William, Count of Mortain article, replacing specific dates and events with nothing but dramatic pap.

taf

-----------------------------

Apparently, the name Comyn comes from either Breton or from the town of Comines on the border of France and Belgium. From a cached page on the Comyn name:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/qx/comyns-family-crest.htm

It is generally believed that this name comes from a Breton personal name, derived from element "cam," meaning "bent," or "crooked," or perhaps from the herb called "cummin" (cumin). Or the name may have come from the place name Comines, in Flanders, Northern France.

Robert de Comyn (Comines), a noble who accompanied William the Conquerer in 1066, was made Earl of Northumberland.


There are a number of Contevilles in northern France. The Conteville in Haute-Normandie seems to be the most likely choice given its proximity to Grestain, which is the site of an abbey closely associated with the Vicomte de Conteville:

From the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy page on Normandy Nobility:

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMAN%20NOBILITY.htm#_Toc254886814

HERLUIN, son of --- (-[1066], bur Grestain). Vicomte de Conteville.

It should be noted that Herluin, according to information above, should be Jean's eldest son, but the researcher on the Medlands project apparently did not find confirmation of any such parent-son connection.


ID: I00666 Jean de Conteville , Vicomte de Comyn

Name: John de CONTEVILLE (no title & no ancestry given) [Ref: Turton p8 & 100]

Name: John de BURGH, Earl of COMYN (see Burke's below)

Name: John Earl of COMYN (see Burke's below)

Name: Jean Count de CONTEVILLE (I didn't cite this at the time I entered it into my database but it was probably from McBride... Curt)

WARNING: Burke's = cum grano salis, caveat emptor!

John, Earl of Comyn, and Baron of Tonsburgh, in Normandy, being general of the king's forces and governor of his chief towns, there obtained the surname 'De Burgh,' and took his motto, 'Ung roy, ung foy, ung loy,' from that of Caen, a chief town in his jurisdiction. He had issue. The eldest son, Harlowen de Burgh, m. Arlotta, mother of William the Conqueror, and dying before his father, left issue, Odo, bishop of Bayeux, created Earl of Kent, and Robert, Earl of Moreton, in Normandy, who, participating with his brother, the bishop of Bayeux, in the triumph of Hastings, was rewarded by his virtuous kinsman, Duke William, with the Earldom of Cornwall, anno 1068, and grants of not less than seven hundred and ninety-three manors. This nobleman m. Maud, dau. of Roger de Montgomery, Earl of Shrewsbury, and had issue, William, his successor, and three daus. [Ref: Burke's Extinct 1883 p88, Burgh, Earl of Kent]

Research note: "Jean de Conteville is on most shaky ground, and even if he did exist, he was of the most minor nobility, not great-grandson of a monarch (Charlemagne was suggested). Herluin's claimed parentage is not well supported (the name Jean would have been most unusual in Normandy at the time)." [Ref: TAF 1 Feb 2002]

My notes indicate that McBride makes him son of Baldwin II "the Bald" Count of FLANDERS & ARTOIS & AElfthryth/Ethelswithe of ENGLAND aka: Ælfthryth (Ælfþryð, Elftrude) of WESSEX per Henry Project, dau of Alfred the Great. McBride cited RfC (yikes!) & Weis AR but I can't find anything in Weis AR7. Perhaps it was in a previous edition but was dropped in succeeding editions.

Regards,

Curt

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igmpostem.cgi?op=show&app=jweber&notify=GNxuisph2uKJGUfPOuo53bzgUVmFTmHm&key=I00666&return=%3Ca+href%3D%22%2Fcgi-bin%2Figm.cgi%3Fop%3DGET%26amp%3Bdb%3Djweber%26amp%3Bid%3DI00666%22%3EReturn+to+WorldConnect%3C%2Fa%3E


See "My Lines"

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p55.htm#i6646 )

from Compiler: R. B. Stewart, Evans, GA

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/index.htm )


http://larryvoyer.com/genealogy/getperson.php?personID=I47085&tree=v7_28
Another name for John was Jean De Conteville Lord Tonsburgh.

   General Notes: Descendants include Baldwin, 2nd King of Jerusalem.
       Noted events in his life were:
       1. Fact 1: Aka Jean DE Conteville. Baron Of Tonsburgh In Normandy.
       2. Fact 2: General Of The French King's Forces & Governor Of His Chief Towns.
       3. Fact 3: Descendants Include Baldwin, 2ND King Of Jerusalem. 
view all 16

Jean de Conteville, comte de Commines's Timeline

969
969
Conteville, Calvados, Basse-Normandie, France
991
991
Age 22
Altyre, Morayshire, Scotland
994
994
Age 25
Mellent, Normandy, France
1001
September 3, 1001
Age 32
Conteville, Calvados, Basse-Normandie, France
1005
1005
Age 36
Tonsburgh, Normandy, France
1006
1006
Age 37
Normandy, France
1009
1009
Age 40
Normandy, France
1012
1012
Age 43
Normandy, France
1067
1067
Age 98
Conteville, Eure, Normandy, France