Joan Tudor, {Fictional}

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Joan Tudor, {Fictional}

Also Known As: "Tudur"
Birthdate:
Birthplace: Snowdon, Caernarvonshire, Wales
Death: after 1479
Lanishen, Glamorganshire South, Wales
Managed by: Pam Wilson, Curator-on-hiatus
Last Updated:

About Joan Tudor, {Fictional}

There is no contemporary, or close to contemporary, evidence for the existence of Joan Tudor, who seems to have been invented as a way to give the Cromwells a Tudor heritage. (That Jasper Tudor did have an illegitimate daughter, Helen or Elen, is attested to early on, however.)

Please see the discussion at https://www.geni.com/discussions/170319

Bartrum gives "Margred verch Thomas" as the wife of William ab Ieuan, and the mother of his children. Joan Tudor is not mentioned. The Wikipedia article for Jasper Tudor discusses Joan Tudor in detail, but does not give any reference for her. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasper_Tudor,_Duke_of_Bedford#cite_note-18) Nor does John Burke's Genealogical and Heraldic History mention her.

Joan Tudor, wife of William ap Yevan (son of Yevan Williams and Margaret Kemoys), and reported mother of Morgan ap William (or Williams) (born Llanishen, Glamorganshire, Wales, 1479), who later married at Putney Church, Norwell, Nottinghamshire, in 1499 to Catherine or Katherine Cromwell, born Putney, London, c. 1483, an older sister of Tudor statesman Thomas Cromwell, 1st Earl of Essex. They were fourth-generation ancestors to Oliver Cromwell, meaning Oliver Cromwell was a descendant of the Welsh Royal Family, via Joan Tudor's grandfather, Owen Tudor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasper_Tudor (posted February 18, 2013) The article cites as its source Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study In Colonial And Medieval Families, Genealogical Publishing, 2011, p.370.

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M. Stolhart directed me to the Wikipedia entry for Owen Tudor, father of Jasper Tudor, 1st Duke of Bedford that notes that Joan Tudor was one of Jasper's illegitimate children. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Tudor

Additional sources asserting that Joan Tudor Williams was fathered by Sir Jasper have been located at: http://www.stepneyrobarts.co.uk/12902.htm

"Jasper reportedly had two illegitimate daughters:

1) Helen Tudor (born c. 1459), wife of a cloth merchant William Gardiner, sometimes spelled William Gardynyr for his Welsh descent (born c. 1450) and mother of Stephen Gardiner, Bishop of Winchester (c. 1490 - November 12, 1555). Richard Gardiner, ( Born 1486 - 1548), and William Gardiner , (born 1488 - 1549).

2) Joan Tudor. Wife of William ap Yevan and reported mother of Morgan ap Williams. Morgan was later married to Catherine Cromwell, an older sister of Tudor statesman Thomas Cromwell. They were fourth-generation ancestors to Oliver Cromwell. 24"

And at: http://www.red1st.com/axholme/getperson.php?personID=I1750120072&tree=Axholme

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If Joan Tudor was born in 1453, she could not possibly be the daughter of Catherine Woodville, who was born in 1458 (or, according to thePeerage.com, circa 1442.) By all accounts, the union of Jasper and Katherine was childless. Similarly, sources refer to Helen as a daughter produced by Sir Jasper's liason with Mevanvy, but do not mention any other offspring, leaving the matter of Joan's maternal ancestry in question. If Joan was married at the extremely young age of about twelve or thirteen years of age, the implication is that her untimely death may have been associated with giving birth to son(s) Morgan (and John?). Between having been born an illegitimate child and living so briefly (if these dates are close to accurate), it would be little wonder that there are few records of Joan's existence. Memory or legend of Joan's place in history appears to be thanks to the rise of the Cromwell line, to which she purportedly contributed through son Morgan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasper_Tudor,_1st_Duke_of_Bedford reports that Jasper Tudor, First Duke of Bedford and Catherine Woodville, who were married on November 7, 1485, had no children other than a stillborn son born in 1490. Joan Tudor, (b. Snowdon, Wales c. 1453, d. 1469), wife of William ap Yevan (son of Yevan Williams and Margaret Kemoys), and mother of twins Sir John Williams and Morgan Williams (born Llanishen, Glamorganshire, Wales, 1469). It is believed that Joan died young during the childbirth of her twin sons.[18] Sir John Williams was the father of John Williams, 1st Baron Williams of Thame, who was the father of Isabel Williams who married Sir Richard Wenman and is thereby ancestor of the Earls of Leicester (7th Creation). Morgan Williams married at Putney Church in 1499, Norwell, Nottinghamshire, to Catherine or Katherine Cromwell, born Putney, London, c. 1483, an older sister of Tudor statesman Thomas Cromwell, 1st Earl of Essex. They were fourth-generation ancestors to Oliver Cromwell, meaning Oliver Cromwell was a descendant of the Welsh Royal Family, via Joan Tudor's grandfather, Owen Tudor


https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=82421844

Joan was an Illegitimate daughter of Jasper Tudor and Mevanvy Verch Daffydd. She married William ap Yevan, the son of Yevan ap William and Margaret Kemoys. Joan was the mother of Morgan ap William (or Williams) (born Lanishen, Glamorganshire, Wales, 1479), later married at Putney Church, Norwell, Nottinghamshire, in 1499 to Katherine Cromwell, born Putney, London, c. 1483, an older sister of statesman Thomas Cromwell, 1st Earl of Essex. Joan and William were fourth-generation ancestors to Oliver Cromwell. It is believed that Joan died young giving birth to her sons John and Morgan

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Joan Tudor, {Fictional}'s Timeline

1453
1453
Snowdon, Caernarvonshire, Wales
1479
1479
Age 26
Lanishen, Glamorganshire South, Wales