John de Sudeley, Lord of Sudeley and Toddington

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John de Sudeley, Lord of Sudeley and Toddington

Also Known As: "Baron Chandos", "John de Sudely"
Birthdate: (50)
Birthplace: Sudeley Castle, Toddington, Gloucestershire, England
Death: Died in Sudeley Castle, Gloucestershire, , England
Immediate Family:

Son of Harold de Ewyas I, Lord of Ewyas and Maud (Margaret) d'Avranches, Le Goz
Husband of Grace de Tracy
Father of Sir Ralph de Sudeley and Sir William de Tracy, Kt.
Brother of Harold de Sudeley, II; Robert FitzHarold de Ewyas; Roger de Ewyas; William de Ewyas and Alexander de Ewias
Half brother of Ranulph III "de Briquessart" le Meschin, Earl of Chester; Geoffrey de Meschines; Robert de Meschines; Matilda de Meschines; Agnes (Adeliza) de Meschines, de Bayeux and 2 others

Managed by: Janette Shonts
Last Updated:

About John de Sudeley, Lord of Sudeley and Toddington

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3D-K.htm#HaroldEwiasidiedafter1100B

JOHN de Sudeley (-before 1166). "Haraldus de Ewyas" donated "ecclesiam Sancti Michaelis de Ewyas…decimam de domino castelli de Ewyas…" to Gloucester St Peter, confirmed by "Roberto herede meo", by undated charter, witnessed by "Rogerus, Johannes, Alexander et Willelmus filii mei…"[398]. Lord of Sudeley Castle and Toddington, Gloucestershire. The 1130 Pipe Roll records "Johs de Sulleia" accounting for his (unnamed) wife’s property in Gloucestershire[399].

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3P-S.htm

Sir John de Sudeley was Lord of Sudeley and Toddingham. The older son, he inherrited the estate of his father in county Glouchester, England. He married Grace de Traci, heiress of Barnstaple, County of Devon. They had two sons: Ralph, the heir of the father; William inherited his mother's estate and assumed her family name, de Traci.

FMG.ac states:

Secondary sources commonly show John´s wife as Grace de Tracy, daughter of William de Tracy, an illegitimate son of Henry I King of England. This appears to be the assumption of many writers, for example the Complete Peerage[1063]. Frank Barlow comments that "William [de Tracy], the second son of John de Sudeley…chose to take his name from the family of his mother, Grace daughter and heir of William (I) de Tracy, lord of Bradninch in Devon and illegitimate son of King Henry I"[1064]. However, I have not yet found any writer who provides a precise primary source citation which can be followed up to confirm this marriage. Her existence has been doubted by Professor Nicholas Vincent, who states that he could "find no reliable evidence to suggest that the royal bastard fathered a daughter named" Grace and suggests that Grace "seems to have been invented, perhaps in comparatively recent times, to explain certain irregularities in the Sudeley descent, and to justify the claims of the Hanbury-Tracy family of Toddington in Gloucestershire to be descended both from the blood royal of Henry I and from William de Tracy, the murderer of Thomas Becket"[1065]. Until more information comes to light, it appears safer to note John de Sudeley´s wife as unknown.

JOHN de Sudeley, son of HAROLD de Ewias & his wife --- (-before 1166). "Haraldus de Ewyas" donated "ecclesiam Sancti Michaelis de Ewyas…decimam de domino castelli de Ewyas…" to Gloucester St Peter, confirmed by "Roberto herede meo", by undated charter, witnessed by "Rogerus, Johannes, Alexander et Willelmus filii mei…"[1502]. Lord of Sudely Castle and Toddington, Gloucestershire. The 1130 Pipe Roll records "Johs de Sulleia" accounting for his (unnamed) wife’s property in Gloucestershire[1503].

m (before 1130) ---. The 1130 Pipe Roll records "Johs de Sulleia" accounting for his (unnamed) wife’s property in Gloucestershire[1504]. The primary source which confirms the name and parentage of the wife of John de Sudeley has not been identified. Indeed, it is not even certain that his two sons were born from the same marriage: their adoption of the different names Sudeley/Tracy may indicate different mothers. Secondary sources commonly show John’s wife as Grace de Tracy, daughter of William de Tracy, an illegitimate son of Henry I King of England. This appears to be the assumption of many writers, for example the Complete Peerage[1505]. Frank Barlow comments that "William [de Tracy], the second son of John de Sudeley…chose to take his name from the family of his mother, Grace daughter and heir of William (I) de Tracy, lord of Bradninch in Devon and illegitimate son of King Henry I"[1506]. However, I have not yet found any writer who provides a precise primary source citation which can be followed up to confirm this marriage. Her existence has been doubted by Professor Nicholas Vincent, who states that he could "find no reliable evidence to suggest that the royal bastard fathered a daughter named" Grace and suggests that Grace "seems to have been invented, perhaps in comparatively recent times, to explain certain irregularities in the Sudeley descent, and to justify the claims of the Hanbury-Tracy family of Toddington in Gloucestershire to be descended both from the blood royal of Henry I and from William de Tracy, the murderer of Thomas Becket"[1507]. Until more information comes to light, it appears safer to note John de Sudeley’s wife as unknown.

John & his wife had two children:

1. RALPH [I] de Sudeley (-before 29 Sep 1192). "Radulphus de Suthleie" donated "Thanewordam villam meam" {Yaneworthe} to Gloucester St Peter, the same place also being donated by separate charter by "Rainaldus de Chockes", by undated charter[1508]. "Willelmus de Traceio" confirmed the donation of "Thanewordam villam meam" {Yaneworthe} to Gloucester St Peter made by "Radulfus de Suthleia frater meus", and with the consent of "Radulfo fratre meo", by undated charter, witnessed by "Henricus de Traceio…"[1509]. "Radulphus de Sudlla" donated property to Winchecombe, donated by "[pater] meus Iohannes de Sudleia", for the souls of "…Emme uxoris mee", by undated charter which names "Otueli filii et heredis mei et Radulphi filii mei"[1510]. “Radulphus de Sudle” donated the churches of Dercet and Chilverdescote to Erdbury, for the souls of "Emmæ uxoris meæ et Hotveli filii mei", by undated charter, witnessed by "…Will de Traci, Ricardo de Sudle…"[1511]. m EMMA, daughter of --- (-after 1192, bur Winchecombe Abbey). "Radulphus de Sudlla" donated property to Winchecombe, donated by "[pater] meus Iohannes de Sudleia", for the souls of "…Emme uxoris mee", by undated charter which names "Otueli filii et heredis mei et Radulphi filii mei"[1512]. “Radulphus de Sudle” donated the churches of Dercet and Chilverdescote to Erdbury, for the souls of "Emmæ uxoris meæ et Hotveli filii mei", by undated charter[1513]. According to Dugdale[1514], she was Emma de Beauchamp, daughter of William de Beauchamp of Elmley & his wife Bertha de Briouse, but the primary source on which this information is based has not been traced. The name of her son Otuel suggests a family relationship with Ottiwell [Otuel], illegitimate son of Hugh Earl of Chester (see the document ENGLAND; EARLS CREATED 1067-1122). Another possibility is that the wife of Ralph [I] de Sudely was --- de Stafford, daughter of Nicholas de Stafford & his wife Matilda ---. This hypothesis depends exclusively on two charters dated to the end 12th century under which "Radulfus de Suleya filius Radulfi de Suleya" confirmed land in Theddlethorpe, Lincolnshire to "Matildi de Hambi" granted to her by "Matildis de Staforda avia sua", and land given to her in the same place by "Haraldus frater eius", the second charter clarifying "Radulfus de Suleya…Matildis de Estafford avia mea"[1515]. No other record has yet been found of a "Suleya/Suleye" family. It is uncertain which English surname is represented by the Latin "Suleya". However, it is similar to "Sudeley" and one possibility is that "Radulfus de Suleya" senior was the same person as Ralph [I] de Sudeley, both persons being recorded with a son named Ralph. The chronology appears favourable for this co-identity, but its likelihood depends on establishing a connection between the Sudeley family and Theddlethorpe. No such connection has yet been identified. Ralph [I] & his wife had two children:

a) OTUEL de Sudeley (-1198, bur Winchecombe). "Radulphus de Sudlla" donated property to Winchecombe, donated by "[pater] meus Iohannes de Sudleia", for the souls of "…Emme uxoris mee", by undated charter which names "Otueli filii et heredis mei et Radulphi filii mei"[1516]. “Radulphus de Sudle” donated the churches of Dercet and Chilverdescote to Erdbury, for the souls of "Emmæ uxoris meæ et Hotveli filii mei", by undated charter[1517]. The Red Book of the Exchequer, listing scutage payments in [1194/95], names "Otuel de Sudlega" paying "lx s, iii milites" in Gloucestershire[1518]. m MARGARET, daughter of ---. Margaret wife of Otuel de Sudeley is named in a charter of Winchecombe abbey[1519].

b) RALPH [II] de Sudeley (-before 26 Feb 1222). "Radulphus de Sudlla" donated property to Winchecombe, donated by "[pater] meus Iohannes de Sudleia", for the souls of "…Emme uxoris mee", by undated charter which names "Otueli filii et heredis mei et Radulphi filii mei"[1520]. "Ralph son and heir of Ralph de Sudeley" made a fine for "his relief of the lands formerly of Ralph his father" in Gloucestershire, dated 26 Feb 1222[1521]. m ISABELLA, daughter of --- (-after 1242). A fine dated 1242 names "Imenie que fuit ux Radi de Suthleg" and "Isabella que fuit ux Radi de Suthleg patris pdci Radi"[1522]. Isabella’s family origin is not known. Several so-called "genealogy" websites published on the internet call her "Isabella de Stafford". This speculation presumably finds its origin in the charters relating to Theddlethorpe, Lincolnshire which are quoted above in relation to the possible origin of the wife of Ralph [I] de Sudeley. As discussed further above, it is not certain that the name "Suleya" in those documents is the same as "Sudeley". In any case, the daughter of Nicholas de Stafford who married "Radulfus de Suleya" was the wife of the older person of that name in those documents who, the chronology suggests, would be identified with Ralph [I] de Sudeley if the names "Suleya" and Sudeley were in fact the same.

- LORDS SUDELEY[1523].

2. WILLIAM de Tracy of Toddington, Gloucestershire (-after [1192]). "Willelmus de Traceio" confirmed the donation of "Thanewordam villam meam" {Yaneworthe} to Gloucester St Peter made by "Radulfus de Suthleia frater meus", and with the consent of "Radulfo fratre meo", by undated charter, witnessed by "Henricus de Traceio…"[1524]. - TRACY.

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John de Sudeley, Lord of Sudeley and Toddington's Timeline

1090
1090
Sudeley Castle, Toddington, Gloucestershire, England
1133
1133
Age 43
Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
1133
Age 43
Sudeley Castle, Toddington, Gloucestershire, England
1140
1140
Age 50
Sudeley Castle, Gloucestershire, , England